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After the 8 a m Mass today in the chapel at Sacred Heart Hastings I was asked, very nicely, while making my silent prayer, if I'd like to continue it in the church. A small group of parishioners were settling in for their Morning Prayer and clearly weren't used to having anyone else around.
"No thanks," I whispered (being mindful of Our Lady's strictures to the little Fatima seer (St) Jacinta on talking in church) - "the Blessed Sacrament's not there."
The nice lady's face sort of slipped. "Oh no," she said, "It's not."
"Just carry on," I whispered. "Don't mind me. I've already said my Morning Prayer," I added virtuously, and indicated the Divine Office (and the Latin Mass missal I'd just used for the N O Mass) beside me.
So they did carry on, and in the off-the-cuff prayers at the end they thanked God for Jacinda, "for keeping us safe." Words fail me. It's the Novus Ordo effect.
I went from Sacred Heart to the prayer vigil outside the Hastings hospital. Friday is the day they kill babies.
Three of the four people there, all Catholics, were Latin Massgoers. We wondered why the good people at Sacred Heart don't go in a body, en masse, to the parish priest and ask for the Blessed Sacrament to be moved into the church. But if It were installed in It's rightful place Father would be celebrating Mass with his back to Our Lord.
You see? It's the Novus Ordo effect.
The Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano and its Maundy Thursday edition's first three pages dedicated to the traitor Judas, illustrated on this blog by van Dyk's The Capture of Christ (above), has elicited a lively debate (see below).
And an N O Massgoer pointed out to me today that the notion of Judas as misunderstood and misrepresented, and perhaps after all was forgiven and is living in eternal bliss, as suggested by Jorge Bergoglio's favorite painting, has been around for decades.
"Yes," I said. "Since Vatican II. It's the Novus Ordo effect."
So in the interest of airing such a vitally important subject, here's the ding-dong online conversation in response to AT LAST BERGOGLIO, REHABILITATING JUDAS, CONDEMNS HIMSELF (https://juliadufresne.blogspot.com/2021/04/at-last-bergoglio-rehabilitating-judas.html)
Philippa O'Neill says: We are living in the 'all are saved' era.
Priests changing the Mass to 'all' from 'many' as quite common here in
Dunedin.
I say: Exactly. Protestantized. It's the Novus Ordo effect.
Ray McKendry (a Protestant) says: True Protestants i.e.
faithful ones, do not believe all people who ever lived will be saved.
Monica Devine says: Julia, don’t blame everything on the NO. There are still many
holy NO orders.
I say: Yes, there may be (I don't know for sure).
Brad Larsen says: Monica, no, however I’d suggest that they’re the exception to the rule. The
fruits of the NO and its theology are at best ‘Catholic Lite’ and typically
degenerate to apostasy/indifference in time. The orders since VII that
demonstrate something diferent all tap into Tradition to a greater or lesser extent.
Philippa O'Neill says: Brad I agree but I have
been to many beautiful NO Masses and there are many fantastic and holy NO
priests. They are just thinner on the ground!
I say: You've just proved Brad's argument.
Brad Larsen: Philippa, yes I don’t disagree
and there are some good priests in the mainstream for sure however I’d simply
repeat that when NO Masses are beautiful it’s insofar as they mimic the TLM!
Monica Devine: Brad, they don’t mimic the
TLM. They are just offered in a dignified manner following all the rubrics and
protocol.
Brad Larsen: agree to disagree
Monica. The ‘rubrics’ of the NO are so opened ended or non-existent that Fr A
can offer a traditional-looking Mass whilst Fr B can offer a clown Mass with
impunity. The NO allows for it all.
Philippa O'Neill: The TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) is not open to the
abuses that the NO is.
Monica Devine: Brad,not sure if you know
the rubrics - I certainly don't but have you read the instruction 'Redemptionis
Sacramentum' (2004)? or the 2003 Encyclical 'Ecclesia Eucharistia'. They are
both very clear about worthy celebration of the Eucharist. Some priest choose
to ignore these.
Brad Larsen: yes I’m across the
rubrics Monica and regardless of what those documents say (some decades after
the introduction of the novel New Order of Mass) they don’t count for much
because as you say the rubrics that do exist are routinely ignored from the
Pope down! The law of the Church on all levels is routinely ignored and flouted
and little or no consequences follow. It’s not the spirit of Vatican II to do
so which has resulted in the largest and deepest crisis in the Church’s
history. The Novus Ordo Missae is both the cause and effect of this crisis
which is thankfully starting to be acknowledged. God bless.
Monica Devine: Brad, if you acknowledge
the rules haven't changed then what you are saying (and I agree) is that the
priests are acting disobediently. This is different than saying the NO has
failed us.
I say: Brad said the rules are ignored. He didn't say the rules haven't changed. They have.
Philippa O'Neill: but Monica it has
failed us ... and mainly the youth. It has become so Protestant that they don't
see anything special in it. It has also become so feminised... females
everywhere and sadly all over the altar. Cringeworthy really. Altar girls too - very few boys. One thing that really blew me away in
Christchurch was the amount of young boys and men serving etc. and not giggling
and smiling - taking it seriously and respectfully. This was the same at the
Latin Mass in Singapore.. wow ... blew me away.
Brad Larsen says: I think we’re
talking at cross purposes Monica. The New Order of Mass has a different set of
laws/rubrics governing it and even more importantly expresses a fundamentally
different understanding of the Mass than the TLM - it’s not ‘the old Mass in
English’ but rather a Protestanised version of the Mass of the ages.
It was
concocted by a committee with Protestant ministers observing and giving input,
an unheard of novelty in the life of the Church. Its aim was to remove any
barriers to our ‘separated brethren’ and can be called an ecumenical Mass where
Catholic theology is downplayed and Protestant errors are ambiguously present.
And when you look into it it’s no surprise that its fruits are as bad as they
are - a diminished and dispirited priesthood, an ignorant and indifferent laity
and a lack of zeal all round. Happy to talk ‘offline’ if you like it’s a big
topic. God bless.
Philippa O'Neill says: Oh my Brad, you have
that right. And that's why those in power wish to get rid of us and the TLM...
it and we stand in the path of pushing this all forward..
Monica Devine: It is a valid Mass
nevertheless ....
I say: Agreed.
Monica Devine ... whether it is celebrated by a worthy priest or by a less than
worthy one and can still be very beautiful. I grew up with the Latin Mass by
choice. How we ‘hear’ and experience the Mass is really more about good catechesis
and disposition than pedantic focus on language and translation. In my youth I
knew many people who were motivated to seek out the TLM more out of
disobedience than love of the Mass. Needless to say many of
them are no longer practising.
Brad Larsen: Mere validity is a
low bar although even that is up for dispute with the NO as more than a few
priests no longer intend on confecting the Eucharist sadly.
They have imbibed
the rebellious spirit the NO encapsulates and ended up faithless. Details
matter. How we worship matters very much indeed ...
I say: Lex orandi, lex credendi.
Brad Larsen goes on: ... and while yes anything good can
be abused/not valued, God and His people deserve the best and that’s what the
Mass of the ages is, not a ‘banal fabrication’ as Pope Benedict once labelled
the Novus Ordo.
Monica Devine: Brad validity is a pretty
high bar these days in some parishes sadly. You did not address my suggestion
that one's interior disposition is crucial. So many hypocrites attend the TLM -
believe me I know, I have met with them. I would rather be an authentic NO
Mass-goer than a two-faced TLM'er any day (still working on that btw).
Brad Larsen: If that’s a high bar then
you need to find somewhere where it’s not I’d suggest!
I’ll happily agree that
one’s inner disposition is critical sure. Not sure how you judge that in other
people though - it’s dangerous anyway. And that’s a bit of a false dichotomy I
think to put those two examples against each other. I know many NO Mass goers
who don’t believe in the Faith and that’s what I’m glad to leave behind. Guess
we have our own stories.
End of the day ‘you’ll know them by their fruits’ ...
... The way forward isn’t the Novus Ordo Missae. It’s dying off as its ideologues die off.
Tradition is the only way forward, I believe, but time will tell!
Can you imagine if we had prayed after Mass 'And thank you for giving us Rob Muldoon to keep us free from communism.' Now that would really have divided the parish. Similarly with Jacinda Adern. They really have no idea. Anyway it is our geographical isolation which has saved us from Covid. Not the PM.
ReplyDeleteFuminore Timothy Watanabe:
ReplyDeleteI wonder if these priests realise that changing the wording to "for all" doesn't automatically enorse universalism. I mean, I would agree that, technically, Jesus did die for all, and his grace is super-abundant to be able to save all, and more, but that not all would accept this grace.
Paul Young:
What a futile exercise ... fretting over the intricacies and meanings of the imaginations of writers and artists of years gone ... wrestling with candy floss ...
I say:
Paul does it even occur to you that if we're 'fretting' and 'wrestling with candy floss' then in responding you are too, only more so?
Paul Young:
Just observing the confused with quirky interest ...
Philippa O'Neill;
Paul Young move on... you have no understanding of things you are commenting on.
Paul Young:
Oh ... so is all this crazy stuff not for the common man ...?
Piripi Thomas:
Paul, it seems that you are an avid follower of Julia's posts, which is encouraging. From your comments it appears that you are not a man of religious beliefs, but there is always hope. Do you believe in eternal life after death? If not, you may be aware that we each have allotted to us approximately 29220 days between birth and mortal death. Maybe you should get out more and enjoy the diminishing balance available to you. And, perhaps, contemplate the remote possibility that Heaven and Hell actually exist and, consequently, to which you are destined. Better to do this before being confronted by that reality and wonder: "What if . . ."
Paul Young:
"What if ... the cow jumped over the moon ..."
Theresa Rogers:
This is an excellent talk given by Michael Voris if anyone is interested.
https://youtu.be/PV5H2aF_rAQ
The Vortex — Judas Was Damned