To comment please open your gmail account or use my email address, FB Messenger or X (Twitter). Protestant rants are not posted on this page.
Bring back the death penalty! So Kiwis say, and it's the only rational response to the murder on New Year's Day of Senior Sergeant Lyn Fleming, a mother, "a beautiful soul and an outstanding police officer". Adam Ramsey, on foot patrol with Fleming, was critically injured when a man drove his vehicle into both officers in Nelson’s Buxton Square.
Not only that, but also - in the first moments of the New Year, yet another infant was murdered in Hamilton, in what's now euphemistically termed "family harm". Meaning, mayhem. Meaning that another child has been killed by its father or a step-father, almost certainly after previous brutish attacks on the baby and/or its mother. And almost certainly, the child was Maori. Chances are the murderer is a recidivist criminal offender who's escaped the maximum prison sentence he deserved. A Simpsons' character on Twitter is saying, "I'm shocked! I'm shocked! Well not that shocked".
What men such as these deserve, after a fair trial and conviction, is the death penalty. Antipope Francis has taken it upon himself to change the millenial teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in regard to capital punishment and on New Year's Day repeated his calls for abolition of the death penalty worldwide.
In contrast with the Pope’s description of the death penalty as “inadmissible” and an attack on the “dignity of the person,” the Catholic Church has always taught – through the Magisterium, popes, saints, theologians, and scholars – that the state reserves the right, in natural law and according to Sacred Scripture (Gen 9:6), to execute criminals.https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/pope-francis-calls-for-abolition-of-the-death-penalty-in-all-countries-of-the-world/
Renowned Catholic philosopher Edward Feser points out that "consistency with scripture and previous papal teaching requires us to say both that life has dignity but also that an offender can in principle lose the right to his life. To fail to affirm both of these things is precisely to contradict past teaching, not “develop” it."
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/sawing-off-the-branch-on-which-he-sits-experts-question-francis-attack-on-p/
Ann Barnhardt calls on Catholic luminaries, some sainted, to refute Antipope Francis' quaint ideas on the death penalty (below):
The Death Penalty Is Essential To A Christian Society and Is Willed By God
The certainty that Antipope Bergoglio is not merely a criminal usurper but the actual False Prophet Forerunner of the Antichrist continues to leap higher. He is undeniably attempting to put himself OVER and ABOVE God and His Holy Church (fraternity quote) at the head of an Antichurch being erected inside the Vatican so as to deceive the world into believing that the Antichurch is and has replaced the One True Church.
Bergoglio is obviously an Antipope, and has been all along, and sits at the head of the ANTICHURCH. It's obvious. There is simply no way the Petrine Promise of Our Lord Jesus Christ to His Body and Bride the Church can be reconciled to Bergoglio as Pope without violating the Law of Non-contradiction and thus denying the Divinity of Christ.
St James the Great on his way to execution |
Some helpful quotes on the death penalty:
Avery Cardinal Dulles
“The reversal of a doctrine as well established as the legitimacy of capital punishment would raise serious problems regarding the credibility of the magisterium.
Consistency with scripture and long-standing Catholic tradition is important for the grounding of many current teachings of the Catholic Church; for example, those regarding abortion, contraception, the permanence of marriage, and the ineligibility of women for priestly ordination. If the tradition on capital punishment had been reversed, serious questions would be raised regarding other doctrines.”
(2004, Avery Cardinal Dulles)St. Augustine
The same divine authority that forbids the killing of a human being establishes certain exceptions, as when God authorizes killing by a general law or when He gives an explicit commission to an individual for a limited time.
The agent who executes the killing does not commit homicide; he is an instrument as is the sword with which he cuts. Therefore, it is in no way contrary to the commandment, ‘Thou shalt not kill’ to wage war at God’s bidding, or for the representatives of public authority to put criminals to death, according to the law, that is, the will of the most just reason.
(The City of God, Book 1, chapter 21)
St. Thomas Aquinas
It is written: “Wizards thou shalt not suffer to live” (Ex. 22:18); and: “In the morning I put to death all the wicked of the land” (Ps. 100:8). …
Every part is directed to the whole, as imperfect to perfect, wherefore every part exists naturally for the sake of the whole. For this reason we see that if the health of the whole human body demands the excision of a member, because it became putrid or infectious to the other members, it would be both praiseworthy and healthful to have it cut away.
Now every individual person is related to the entire society as a part to the whole. Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and healthful that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since “a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump” (1 Cor. 5:6).
(Summa Theologiae, II, II, q. 64, art. 2)
The fact that the evil ones, as long as they live, can be corrected from their errors does not prohibit that they may be justly executed, for the danger which threatens from their way of life is greater and more certain than the good which may be expected from their improvement.
They also have at that critical point of death the opportunity to be converted to God through repentance. And if they are so obstinate that even at the point of death their heart does not draw back from malice, it is possible to make a quite probable judgment that they would never come away from evil.”
(Summa contra gentiles, Book III, chapter 146)
“…a secondary measure of the love of God may be said to appear, for capital punishment provides the murderer with incentive to repentance which the ordinary man does not have, that is a definite date on which he is to meet his God. …the law grants to the condemned an opportunity which he did not grant to his victim, the opportunity to prepare to meet his God. Even divine justice here may be said to be tempered with mercy.”
St. Alphonsus Liguori
It is lawful to put a man to death by public authority: it is even a duty of princes and of judges to condemn to death criminals who deserve it; and it is the duty of the officers of justice to execute the sentence; God Himself wishes malefactors to be punished.
John Senior
Justice is simply the social good, and it must therefore be done. It is defined as “giving each his due” – cuique sum, “to each his own.” A man is due his life because he is a living thing; it is his nature to have life; and, since it is also his nature to be moral, if a man commits a crime, he must be punished because punishment is retributive – punishment is the penalty due the criminal in justice to him. Proportioned punishment is due him, too, and you cannot deny him that right without yourself committing an injustice against him deserving punishment in turn. The judge who fails the criminal in punishment himself incurs a greater guilt.
a prisoner on death row being used to test safety nets before they were mass-produced for the public (1958) |
There is another justification for punishment besides retribution. Pain and deprivation are medicinal. They hurt so much that the criminal can learn that crime does not pay – or at least that the victims pay back. If you want to teach the prisoner a trade or put him to useful work, well and good; but those things are secondary and must never interfere with the first and proper use of punishment, which is the restoration of the equality of justice not only in society but in the person of the criminal.
A person who commits a crime has indulged his will against reason; a disequilibrium has been established in his soul, as Plato says, which can only be righted by retributive exercise of reason against his will. The greatest evil in the world is to do wrong without being punished.
They object to punishment itself; and that is because they deny the existence of justice; and that is because they deny that man is free, that man is responsible for his acts. Crime, they say, is sickness. It must be cured, or better, prevented by prophylaxis of the spirit, by the extermination of free will altogether so that men will react like Pavlov’s dogs to sensitivity training and even to psychosurgery and drugs . . . .
They say crime is illness. Now if that were true, there could be no moral act whatsoever. If man is not free to choose evil, he is not free to choose good . . . . Everyone must remember the story of the murderer who said in court: “You can’t blame me, it was my heredity and environment that caused me to kill” and the judge who replied, “It is my heredity and environment that sentences you to hang by the neck until dead.”
(The Death of Christian Culture, Chapter 7)
Watch: A Nazi war criminal brought to scaffold for execution by hanging: https://youtu.be/fX1mmQOL1t8
https://www.barnhardt.biz/2024/04/18/the-death-penalty-is-essential-to-a-christian-society-and-willed-by-god/
ReplyDeleteAt what cost rehab? And then when rehab fails and more tragedy occurs? For killing a baby there should be no sympathy.
ReplyDelete'Bring back the death penalty'. A simple thing often said by the simple minded.
It's a radical and extreme 'solution' to a problem that lies much deeper. I also betcha the appeal to bring it back is motivated primarily be vengeance rather than rehabilitation, i.e. reaction rather than solution.
It won't work as long as the state seeks to regulate every aspect of our lives, including parenting and health.
Johann Schutte 'A simple thing often said by the simple minded.' It's good to remember that Christ has said 'If you do not become like little children you will not enter the kingdom of heaven". God is 'Simple' and the reasons for the Catholic Church's advocacy - for millennia - of the death penalty, are simple. Did you click on the link and read those reasons?
Delete
DeleteJohann Schutte try rehabilitating the policewoman you do gooder
ReplyDeleteJust have judges that will enforce the law.
DeletePeter Horgan easier said than done - and by the abolition of the death penalty and its repercussions it's obvious that the law is an ass.
ReplyDeleteWhat’s religion got to do with it? Catholic Church members responsible for plenty of sadism, torture, injuries, deaths as we all know and should have been strung up.
DeleteHelen McFarlane Religion has to do with everything. It's because we have forgotten God and religion that mankind is in our current state of anarchy. Yes, many Catholics should have been strung up but far fewer Catholics than others. Satan prompts Protestants et al to blame Catholicism for society's evils because it is Catholicism, especially the Eucharist, that he fears and hates. Notice that Catholics don't rant about other religions: Satan isn't bothered by them and leaves them to their own devices.
DeleteJulia du Fresne I was babysitting for someone & looked thru the bookshelf, as you do. The Catholic wife had made the Protestant husband go to classes to become one. I was totally shocked at what I read about what Catholics think of Protestants- so I beg to differ on that score🥴
Helen McFarlane apples and oranges: publishing a book which corrects Protestant heresy is a matter of conscience and truth, and not to be compared with the perennial rush to judgment of Catholics seen all the time on social media and heard in private conversation.
Delete
ReplyDeleteNope an easy way out . life in solitary confinement
DeleteMark Rallison 'an easy way out'? Tell that to the government and taxpayers who have to foot the bill. Have you any idea of the expense involved? Not to mention that life in solitary confinement is inhumane.
DeleteMark Rallison the flip side of that is us tax payers have to contribute to keep them alive.
ReplyDeleteActually Julia, I find your comments disgusting to suggest "men" are the ONLY gender responsible for these horrendous crimes. 🤢🤬😡
Frank Guthrie I don't suggest that. Of course women can kill but stats show they do so far less frequently,
Delete
ReplyDeleteBring back hanging!
James March I would have posted an image of a public execution but FB would have promptly removed it. I know from experience.
Delete
ReplyDeleteStill waiting for all the media time and govt apology for all the thousands who were murdered by the vax
Simba Simba
DeleteJane Kellahan Artist and who continue to be murdered on a daily basis as the C19 vax (bio weapon) keeps working
DeleteSimba Simba Fair comment, When will those in government posts who deliberately inforced poisonous jabs into innocent people using even seductive methods to do so going to be held accountable & face the death penalty.When the public of New Zealand see this sort of thing happen expect very little sympathy as it comes down to who's on side with the innocent 🙄.
ReplyDeleteSorry about the loss, RIP and all that. She shouldn't have lost her life.
However this woman was a fully-vaccinated, mandate-enforcing agent of the government who by her lack of objection supported the storm-troop tactics of the blue shirts (like the Fascist black-shirts and the NAZI brown-shirts) against NZ citizens who were simply exercising their right to free speech.
As such she's guilty of disloyalty and dereliction of duty (to serve and protect the public) to benefit materially. She's also a member of a gang that chose to cosy up to other gang members, one of which (i'll bet) now took her life.
DeleteJohann Schutte I was coming here to say something similar. lol. So bring back the death penalty for one crime but not for forcing an experimental mRNA vaccine on the masses to then ignore all the side effects the sudden deaths and to allow the people that did it to carry on as if nothing was wrong..................Yea cool story bro.
ReplyDeleteSad, but no, not a rational response given the mistakes made in NZ
DeleteOwen Williamson my mother was opposed to the death penalty for that reason. "Why Didn't They Ask Evans?" was a book she quoted often. But far far fewer citizens would be deprived of life by capital punishment than by wrongful conviction.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know its the father that killed that baby?
DeleteTrixie Webber I don't. It's an educated guess.
DeleteJulia du Fresne I would say there is a good chance he is the step father or was the step father.
DeleteTrixie Webber You're right and I'll edit the post accordingly.
DeleteJohann Schutte people would stop murdering people if they knew their lives were at stake.
the same as theft, if we used actual punishment like humiliation theft rates would drop almost overnight
ReplyDeleteYou spill blood premeditated her blood crying is out! may the family be comforted in these that justice will be served justly!
ReplyDeleteYes, I think life for a life, given absolutely clear facts to support it, is a fair and just response.
ReplyDeletebring back the roap
DeleteSooner the better, where there is absolutely no doubt who committed the murder then it’s an eye for an eye, forget the bleeding hearts and the hand wringers, weak politicians just won’t do it that’s the problem
DeleteSel Kilpatrick i's not a question of 'An eye for an eye'. That scriptural verse is widely misunderstood. But otherwise I agree with you.
ReplyDeleteYes 👍🏻 I bet it is a moari child that died. I agree with you
ReplyDeleteSadly it's so correct to term these events as murder. No one goes into these bad incidents expecting anything other than the outcome that has transpired.....
ReplyDeleteShouldn't it be 'farnow' harm if it involves that crowd?
ReplyDeleteLove and peace fellow beings
Clyde McCready love of God demands justice.
Delete
ReplyDeleteLife doesn’t have value anymore unless the taking of a life costs you your life. It should be up to a jury to decide whether the death penalty should be imposed
ReplyDeleteI dont have a issue with that till.you.get it wrong or its used a s a state weapon which happens all the time
DeleteJohn Baxendine the death penalty would result in far fewer deaths than would otherwise be the case.
ReplyDeleteR I P TO THE officer thank you for your service ,all those cold nights bone chilling dark call out all the people you have help or yoy cut slack attending D O A or voliient offence or child issues that 80 percent of the public cause or ignore thank you for being the human you were.
ReplyDeleteFrancis should have condemned his own church for the thousands of executions at the stake, by fire, during the Middle ages and the Spanish inquisition! And there are to many assumptions in this post, hope they don't come back to bite you Julia?while yet denying the other obvious facts of history!
DeleteRobert Hooker Have you any idea of the thousands upon thousands of Catholics murdered for their faith by Protestants, since Luther's and Henry VIII's 'Deformation'? And if my 'assumptions' prove incorrect I'll apologise: I have already edited the post to state that the baby may well have been murdered by a 'stepfather'.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating to me that while children starve and people can't get good Healthcare quickly, we keep criminals in relative luxury, all expenses paid.
Three strikes law was enacted on people averaging 70 offenses, not three. That is insane. To be caught doing 70 crimes, how many had they really done.
At what point does a criminal start paying?
ReplyDeleteAgree 💯. Death penalty should be mandatory for pre-meditated murder.
ReplyDeletePlanned attacks and murder are intentional.
What if some people are actually beyond rehabilitation?
What is your proposal for those individuals/groups?
DeleteMichelle Brackebush if After a fair trial they are convicted individually of premeditated murder they should receive the death penalty.
ReplyDeleteHANGMAN WANTED.
ReplyDeleteAfter the events of 2022 I have no respect for the police
ReplyDeleteThe cost of keeping him alive would be better spent in the health budget, otherwise that lack of health funding is killing others. So he gets to "remotely" kill others!
ReplyDeleteThe court in the Nelson case has made their first mistake,they have suppressed the guys name,I say name and shame him.He has no right when he did what he did.
Betty Wood name suppression is justified before trial and conviction but not after.
DeleteOver the past 70 years the rate New Zealand puts people in jail has increased 4 fold, from 50 per 100,000, to 200 per 100,000. We all know too many of our kids are out of control, ram raiding, refusing to turn up at school, fornicating, dropping out, turning to drugs. Many who are not so bad, have been turned seriously bad.
ReplyDeleteWhat caused this rapid change? Does it have anything to do with tearing down the support for marriage, undermining the family, corrupting values of decency, destroying the authority of the church?
So if our young people are committing gross crimes, whose fault is it? Is it those of us who created this society, or the young people who can't handle the lack of discipline, control, or Christian ethics?
If we want to put the death penalty as a disincentive at the bottom of the cliff, shouldn't we first ask what we did to make more and more young people fall off the top of the cliff?
ReplyDeleteAgainst abortion yet pro death penalty. The logic of the religious haha
Ryan PR life is a gift from God, Who created it. It must be protected and defended. And if you deliberately take from another the life given it by God, His justice demands your life in retribution.
Delete
ReplyDeleteCareful what you wish for.
A death penalty won't turn out so good for us if all the lawyers,judges,coppers,pollies etc are bent and still in charge.
May have to consider it in retrospect
ReplyDeleteSadly, the defense will provide a sob story about the offender's childhood, abuse, drug dependency, etc., and a female judge will bring out the wet bus ticket. Shooting would be too good for this human excrement. Drop it on some outcrop of the Auckland Islands or the Malvinas. Hasta la vista, turd!
ReplyDeleteNo unborn child ever deserved the death penalty though.
DeleteTerry Bowden Nope. We "abhor" the idea of killing the most vile murdering rapist, for example, but some, especially the Greens, celebrate that innocent defenseless children are fair game. And that useless Clueless Thickasabrick must be the worst of hypocrites, crying over children dying in Gaza while voting for wholesale slaughter in New Zealand. And, at our expense. And idiotic NZ voters in their thousands support that rabble. Holey shirt!!
ReplyDeleteTruly tragic. As a Kiwi living here in Sydney with the Cricket pink test raises funds for breast cancer and all cancers.Today was a day for Australian national pride along with the indian community and every one else.Looking from affar New Zealand seems to be divided between Maori and everybody else.