To comment please open your gmail account, or use my email address, The sheer volume of comments on FB now make it impracticable to publish them all on this blog. Sorry about that, chief.
'Time for the Priests who say the traditional Mass in that Diocese to go underground."
That comment was the opening shot in a veritable hail of bullets on fired on Facebook in response to "Cardinal Dew cancels Wellington Archdiocese Latin Mass" https://juliadufresne.blogspot.com/2021/08/cardinal-dew-abolishes-wellington.html.
In defiance of the announcement (above) some comments warrant publication, if only for the supreme importance of the issue at stake.
One who commented, on the FB group Defense of the Immemorial Rite, was Dr Peter Kwasniewski, Thomistic theologian, liturgical scholar and choral composer, often quoted on this blog. His contribution was to recommend 'The Society of St Hugh of Cluny' on Traditionis Custodes - Despatches from the front.
"I love this blog. Stuart's writing is golden."
https://sthughofcluny.org/2021/08/traditionis-custodes-dispatches-from-the-front.html?fbclid=IwAR12j9pO80uQLOGCNHpbkOjeXii2a5_3wYfUJv2Oc6rEfMa5V0tZxrVl_HYj
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| STHUGHOFCLUNY.ORG |
Ruth Green's response was: "I wonder how this will pan out through the rest of the country? It has been very quiet since the document was released and those of us attending the FSSR Oratory (Christchurch) have been continuing as normal, but watching closely."Nigel Thomas Gregory Wallace: "Thank God for the SSPX."
Simon J Dodd: "Yes, and to be very clear, thank God SSPX was willing to tak
Raul Cisneros: "Reminds me of these writings reportedly from Blessed Ann Catherine Emmerich. March 22, 1820:
“I saw very clearly the errors the aberrations an the countless sins of men. I saw the folly and the wickedness of their actions, against all truth and all reason. Priests were among them, and I gladly endured my suffering so that they may return to a better mind.”
“I had another vision of the great tribulation. It seems to me that a concession was demanded from the clergy which could not be granted. I saw many older priests, especially one, who wept bitterly. A few younger ones were also weeping. But others, and the lukewarm among them, readily did what was demanded. It was as if people were splitting into two camps…”
And another couple of links:
Op-Ed: With 'Traditionis custodes', Francis Promotes Disunity (by Archbishop Aguer, Emeritus of La Plata, Argentina): A Regrettable Step Backwards
https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2021/08/op-ed-with-traditionis-custodes-francis.html?fbclid=IwAR0Y6VlPvh6dXT2R0JQi0oml-KjDpmrpM-qUIyg68FczDOQ7mMuIcrIcsUU
Socci: "A Buzz in the Vatican: A Conclave is in the Air."
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Frorate-caeli.blogspot.com%2F2021%2F08%2Fsocci-buzz-in-vatican-conclave-is-in-air.html%3Fm%3D1%26fbclid%3DIwAR2SsTrvSX_qGTs6xeNhDvND4V2WMoaviU6WGOlNbZ1a8Fn0ISDkH_I6azQ&h=AT32esGMuxGpWGrJisVKkd3IQXNODDo3EoBKN6q9qHr6rNdRCzca8fiMmMdPnILO3SxShGoHJzxDil-E243FNrhryXogh9fTRmVD1Bia7nJXBFhiVTwe6mTxV4XJnv_-7I2o&__tn__=H-R&c[0]=AT28ux_vVEHVxxe8y-JvkLgKKJzInMS8ZUKrRjqo3JvMOJEN_z1Vf20o9a4JIvwShRRBQPJgV6Jo2PT5WBN-7HcqxQWwONkzdy-59G_hjigG3QJ7XN_-VHGZGocQeYA64e3RV7MTwk1kwafmipOeGhsHNTgSiK-_XMqqqlfY1cbY8kVdJE_q-uyx1BXj0AXbY8ZjjH649FPp0j-3ag
Gabriel Syme: "Pope Francis is leading the Church into an ecclesial war. And in war, only one side wins.
Hence, I think that ultimately only one will survive: either Novus Ordo or Traditional Latin Mass.
"Be prepared to defend the Church with all your life. And pray to God every day for love, grace and the spirit of martyrdom."
Do you think +Dew cares for our tithes? Seems Jacinda is quite generous in keeping Church in line at this point. And +Dew is avidly enabling government restrictions.
ReplyDeleteIt is in fact, tantamount to cancelling prayer. We do not discuss church divisions at Mass.
ReplyDeleteTheresa Rogers:
ReplyDeleteI’m just dreading who Bergoglio has lined up as the next pope.
I say: Tagle probably. O me miserum.
I wonder why the Archbishop was not so quick to act against the Carterton parish? It was a scandal well known in the NZ Church. Eventually, because of the number of complaints, and after several years, the Archbishop apologetically removed the priest. It was basically a cult. The horse had bolted as far as Catholic orthodoxy was concerned. They may as well have denied the validity of Vatican II for the ship they sailed on was so far out to sea that Vatican II had no relevance except it was an excuse to set sail. You can come to your own conclusion about all that, there is a video on Vimeo, just search for 'A Parish Apart'. You will get the general idea.
ReplyDeleteSo it seems to be highly duplicitous to set about swiftly closing down the TLM. Unless we are to believe that the Archbishop, based on his Carterton experience, was eloquent in defending its continuance. I mean how many complaints had they received, I would be confident there were none. Which leaves a retired bishop holding the baby, but then he is retired and the generosity of the Archbishop would have prevailed, surely?
Let's call a spade a spade. They don't like it. They dislike the Latin Mass more than they hate what used to be termed heresy. They prefer to tolerate invalid Masses and syncretic liturgies which bear no relation whatsoever to Vatican II.
At Carterton, even baptism was no longer a basic requirement to receive the Eucharist. I know that to be a fact, and even the unbaptised himself was shocked to be told it didn't matter. So there you have it, that was all tolerated for years. The video only tells the half of it.
With respect to the TLM, (I write this as a Catholic who attends the NO every Sunday, covid permitting, and who has attended one TLM about 10 years ago), I can only imagine Our Lord asking the relevant prelates, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me."
Why don't I seek out the Latin Mass for myself? Access is problem. But I agree with the Flannery O'Connor statement about the Church causing one to suffer. I realised that a long time ago. My response has been to increase personal prayer while remaining as faithful as I can, as well as speaking about the faith as I can. I contextualise it like this: Blessed are those who mourn. Purgatory now or later I guess.
I was unaware of Carterton and have not viewed the video. Did the priest remain in the priesthood? Pat Dunn has all but canonised Felix Donelley.
ReplyDeleteYes. No parish as far as I know.
DeleteAs early as 1993, I was moved to exhort Cardinal Wolsey (Williams) to deal with clerical fornication, prompted by the conviction of Peter McCormack. My letter implored him to deal with Condra and a couple of other named priests, all of whom Wolsey allowed to continue as priests in good standing.
ReplyDeleteI got no reply from Wolsey, of course.
All of them remain priests in good standing under Cardinal CallMeJohn, albeit a couple have “retired”.
Condra continues to provide priestly relief in parishes, and conducts retreats, etc.
From my first experience of him in Lower Hutt parish, Condra portrayed clearly a representation of the priesthood that was not attractive, except, it seemed, to younger ladies. And the not so young ladies of Carterton parish found him attractive.
I had the most unfortunate experience of attending at Greytown in 2009 a Sunday Mass celebrated by Condra. I suppose it was a valid Mass, but afterwards I chose to write directly to him in that regard. I got no reply, of course.
It is at least somewhat gratifying to find Condra acknowledging in the video referenced by Anonymous that he believes in neither the Crucifixion nor the Resurrection. But that doesn’t bother CallMeJohn.
The “parish community” that Condra formed in Carterton was nothing much more than a New Age community. Perhaps it could’ve been regarded as Protestant, but certainly not Catholic.