Tuesday 13 July 2021

FATHER JOE'S MASS: IT'S VALID BUT IS IT LICIT?

To comment please open your gmail account or use my email address, fb or Messenger. Scroll down for other comments.


Father (not 'Father Joe') pronounces the words of Consecration


Faithful Catholics of the Cathedral Parish, Palmerston North, Our Lady of Lourdes PN, St Mary's Foxton, Sacred Heart Rongotea and St Joseph's Shannon can rest assured that Masses celebrated by Fr Joseph Grayland ('Father Joe') are valid Masses.

It would seem Fr Grayland's Masses are illicit - but they are valid

In 'Father James Altman and Father Joe Grayland - Worlds Apart' last Friday, this blog had the temerity to cast doubt on the Hosts consecrated by Fr Grayland (in other words are they Hosts with a capital H, or just hosts, as in bits of bread?

It was Fr Grayland's self-proclaimed disbelief in the dogma of Transubstantiation which raised the question. Can a priest who doesn't believe in what he's doing actually call the Son of God down upon the altar? (Vide Bishop Peter Cullinane, who told an adult acolyte some years ago, "I don't believe in what I'm doing" - although he more likely meant the TLM, not transubstantiation. )

Yes that priest can, says Jimmy Akin, Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a member on the Catholic Answers Speakers Bureau, a weekly guest on the global radio program, Catholic Answers Live, a contributing editor for Catholic Answers Magazine, and the author of numerous publications, including the books 'Mass Confusion', 'The Salvation Controversy' etc.


Jimmy may look a little bit cowboy but he's got the Answers

"The problem of grave liturgical abuses is so widespread that I regularly receive inquiries about what makes a Mass “invalid.” The technical answer is that nothing makes a Mass invalid. Validity is not per se a category that applies to the Mass as a whole. It is necessary to rephrase the question in order to give an accurate, meaningful answer. Typically, when people ask about the “validity” of a Mass, they wish to know one of two things: Did the Mass contain a valid consecration of the Eucharist? And would a particular Mass fulfill one’s Sunday obligation? 
In recent years the faithful have been scandalized by ambiguous and at times inaccurate preaching on the Real Presence and transubstantiation."

You can say that again, Jimmy.   

"Jesus chose to institute in the Eucharist a sacrament whereby he is really, truly, bodily present. Yet this is not obvious to the senses. He chose to hide himself in this manner, which is why those without faith or with wavering faith are able to doubt the Real Presence. Yet he also made this the single most frequently given and received sacrament in the Christian life. He would scarcely, then, be likely to make his Real Presence contingent on the fluctuating inward faith life of the minister celebrating it.

"Cases of priests actually disbelieving in the Real Presence are rare. However, when confronted with ambiguous teaching, a question that naturally arises in the minds of the faithful: “What if my priest doesn’t believe in transubstantiation? Does the consecration still take place?"

"The answer is that it does. It is not necessary for the priest to have the specific intention that transubstantiation take place so long as he has the general intention to celebrate the sacrament of the Eucharist, even if he has a very erroneous understanding of that sacrament."

And Dogma 66 states that: "validity and efficacy (of Mass and the Sacraments) is independent of the priests' orthodoxy or state of grace."

That's all very reasurring. 

But. What if the priest has incurred automatic excommunication by obstinate post-baptismal denial of some doctrine of the Catholic Church? That would certainly seem to be the case with 'Father Joe' Grayland and his self-proclaimed denial of transubstantiation, not to mention sundry other heresies reported to and on this blog. 

No one is automatically excommunicated for any offense if, without any fault of his own, he was unaware that he was violating a law (CIC 1323:2) or that a penalty was attached to the law (CIC 1324:1:9).

Now, it's hard to imagine that a priest - especially one with a string of theological qualifications like 'Father Joe' Grayland - could be 'unaware that he was violating' a law against denial of the doctrine of transubstantiation, or 'that a penalty was attached'.  So on the face of it, 'Father Joe' Grayland has incurred automatic excommunication. 

How does that affect the licity or otherwise of his Mass?

According to Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki, "excommunication does not expel the person from the Catholic Church, but simply forbids the excommunicated person from engaging in certain activities."[10] 
These activities are listed in Canon 1331 §1, and prohibit the individual from any ministerial participation in celebrating the sacrifice of the Eucharist or any other ceremonies of worship; celebrating or receiving the sacraments; or exercising any ecclesiastical offices, ministries, or functions.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication


So on the face of it, if  'Father Joe' Grayland has incurred automatic excommunication, he's prohibited from celebrating Holy Mass. So his Masses are illicit. But not invalid.

Of course these issues should be raised with 'Fr Joe' Grayland's bishop. But he hasn't got a bishop and neither do the faithful of the Palmerston North Diocese. Not since October 2019, when +Charles Drennan resigned his short-lived bishopric (although he's still a bishop, but God knows where). 'Father Joe' Grayland is seen by many to be the de facto bishop of the diocese. That would seem to be part of the problem.

One of the pope's main tasks is to appoint bishops but Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who talks about shepherds smelling of their sheep, is too busy appointing women as acolytes, lectors and deacons, in a not-too-subtle attack on the priesthood and on His Lord and Master Jesus Christ, to attend to the crying needs of the flock of Palmerston North, New Zealand. One wonders how many other dioceses in his global fold are wanting bishops.

People ask, "should we complain about Father Joe?" 

To whom? Two alternatives: the Papal Nuncio or Cardinal John Dew who's serving as Apostolic Administrator. Experience tells us that appeals to bishops and papal nuncios are a waste of time practically speaking, but not spiritually because for one thing, "Nothing further is necessary to the triumph of evil than the silence of good men" (Edmund Burke), and for another,Catholics and Christians have a fraternalt duy of correction.

So complain away - to Cardinal Dew and the Papal Nuncio. Or rather, explain your concerns for 'Father Joe' Grayland's spiritual welfare, for his soul, for his eternal salvation and the same concerns that you have for the people of the Palmerston North Diocese, especially in the cathedral parish, at Our Lady of Lourdes, St Mary's Foxton and St Joseph's Shannon.

And go straight to the top.

 Ask the help of the Mediatrix of All Graces, the Co-Redemptrix, the Theotokos, the Mother of God. And Ss Irenaeus, Polycarp and Boniface - all Martyr Bishops. And lacking a shepherd for our flock, we could ask St Peter, the first pope, for his intercession too. 


St Peter holding the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven


14 comments:

  1. Sarah OConnor:
    “A priest who has been laicized or suspended or excommunicated is not to say Mass, but if the Mass is said, it is considered valid.”
    I assume it goes for a priest who doesn’t believe too.
    What a terrifying thought this is. Just imagine that ‘priest’ who was caught having sex with prostitutes on the alter still being able to consecrate hosts, and what could be the end result of those hosts. 😫 doesn’t bear thinking about.

    Sharon Crooks:
    You don’t even have to go beyond the Gospels to see that Our Lord gave His Body and Blood equally to those closest to His Heart and to those who were is betrayers. He dipped the Bread and gave the morsel to Judas who walked straight out into the night and did what he had planned to do in his heart.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Terry Bowden:
    Who works the miracle of transubstantiation?
    1. The priest
    2. God
    Once you can answer that question, you will be on the right path.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As stated in this post, it is the priest who calls God down upon the altar - as God decreed the miracle should occur.
      Of course it is God who works the miracle but the other question is the lawfulness (as opposed to validity) of the Mass when celebrated by an heretical priest.

      Delete
  3. Seems that anyone whose beliefs seem to differ from yours is heretical, Julia.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is a significant matter if a priest denies transubstantiation, for whatever other explanation he provides for the truth of the Real Presence will fall far short of it's reality.

      Our salvation depends on the Eucharist (John 6).

      Granted, as New Advent puts it, transubstantiation holds to the truth of the Real Presence, but the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist cannot be reduced to transubstantiation alone, the mystery of it is beyond human explanation. This correctly describes the relationship in Catholic teaching between what is theological, of Revelation, and philosophical, what is a human understanding. But there is an integral relationship nonetheless.

      The point is transubstantiation is correctly taught with respect to the dogma of the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist.

      We just can't go making things up or we lose the truth of things. If we do that, heresy, or false teaching about any dogma is the most likely result.

      Delete
  4. My understanding is the priest must have the intention to do what the church does. That is the minimum. A sinful priest can still transubstantiate validly. An illicit mass is valid but illicit. Ekepecia applies.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I share your concern Julia. It is a question you could ask a Canon Lawyer in NZ. I do not think it is easy to draw a straight line from 'a priest saying Mass but contending with transubstantiation itself as an explanation for the Catholic dogma on the Holy Eucharist' to being 'automatically excommunicated'.

    For what it is worth, I assume (unless I know otherwise) that the priest does not hold to transubstantiation to explain the Holy Eucharist, but do believe he has not power in whatever he believes to prevent Christ's Real Presence, as long as he says the correct words of consecration.

    I witnessed one Mass where it was very clear the Bread and Wine were not consecrated, the priest is known for this but I did not know he would be saying Mass that day. So I was expecting it and did not receive at all. What shocked me most was that it seemed the vast majority of the congregation either didn't notice or didn't care and filed up for the 'eucharist'.

    Our culture has a problem with the reality of embodiment fullstop. Reality is what we say it is. So Fr Grayland's meaning well will be all that is required. A tragedy all around, but God is faithful as long as the words of consecration are true. Perhaps, I am speculating here, but where the faith and understanding of the priest is severely lacking, but the words are truly spoken, Christ is made present, and the merits of the Church itself are sufficient to make up what is lacking in the intentions of the priest.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Terry Bowden:
    Good point. "God Himself is obliged to abide by the judgement of his priests. " (St Alphonus de Ligouri)

    Paul Young:
    Transubstantiation ... phefffft ... give me strength ... you guys really do push b...s... to the limit ...

    Bob Gill:
    Nice to see you keep staying on to get a religious education, Paul!

    ReplyDelete
  7. Sharon Crooks:
    Wow look at you! Most Catholics have never heard of Transubstantiation - I was one of them for a long time! Let’s hope your heart softens up soon hey, then you will know first hand just what a miracle the Most Holy Eucharist is.

    Paul Young:
    Mind blowing madness ... it's wine and a biscuit ... why would you be eating and drinking bits and blood of someone ... are you bloody canibals?

    ReplyDelete
  8. I say:
    We eat and drink Christ's Body and Blood to become transformed into Him: to become an 'alter Christus' (another Christ). It's the miracle of the Eucharist which has empowered the saints of the Church, down through the centuries, to perform amazing feats of valour for the honour and glory of God. Read 'The Jesuits' for instance, by Malachi Martin, and marvel at what that illustrious order achieved pre-1900 - and weep to see what the Jesuits have become.

    Sharon Crooks:
    Paul, seems an oxymoronic response! You call the elements wine and biscuits and then ask if we are canibals? We have the best of both worlds - Our Lord’s Heart, Soul, Mind, and Divinity in what was the wine and biscuit/bread! The absolute most perfect and glorious Food on all the earth - the only Food that is truly worth dying for!

    Paul Young;
    Julia du Fresne ... you clearly believe what you are saying ... so very very sad that the churches can clamp peoples minds into cages never to be able to escape ... worse than Gloriavale ...

    Sharon Crooks ... well you believe that the are actual blood and flesh ... hence my reference to cannibalism ...

    Sharon Crooks:
    Paul I wish I could convince you of the Truth of the matter. Wouldn’t you think if it was just bread and wine (and we know it’s not) that it could not have survived two thousand years of discussion, much less be the subject of so much ink; so much blood of the martyrs; so much liturgical tradition; so many hearts that have beat in ecstasy; so many Eucharistic miracles??? How much wool is over those faithless eyes of yours Paul?

    Paul Young:
    Yep ... I suppose you'll tell me the wool is over my eyes in respect to Santa Claus and the tooth fairy also ... why not ... they're no more rediculous ...



    Bob Gill
    Nice to see you keep staying on to get a religious education, Paul!
    · Reply · 22h
    Paul du Fresne
    Bob Gill I wouldn’t be too sure, Bob. I’ve seen several instances on this page of ‘consubstantiation’ being cited when what they are referring to is transubstantion. So they would be leading poor old Paul up the garden path. But I don’t think Paul w… See More
    · Reply · 4h
    Julia du Fresne
    Thank you for pointing out that slip of the tongue, which I had rectified fairly smartly.

    ReplyDelete
  9. God knows why you all bother with “Paul Young”. He’s just a troll, and your words are wasted. Even worse, they give him oxygen.
    I applaud your commitment to free speech, Julia, which keeps you publishing his junk. But it’s so repetitious; I think you’ve given him his time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I say: Paul Young may be a troll but Judas was worse than a troll and Our Lord never gave up on Judas.

      Delete
    2. Judas gave up on himself and did not seek forgiveness.

      Delete
  10. Bergoglio is playing silly beggers with the Tridentine Mass. Rules and restrictions....

    ReplyDelete