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| Times Square, New York |
When you see a toddler genuflect with his mother at the church door on a Sunday morning, you know you're at the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM). When you have to kneel on the floor behind the confessional pew in the hope of squeezing in sometime, it confirms that yes, this is the Mass of Ages. And when the row of little boys in front of you compete to hold the hand of their baby sister, you may thank God you're here at the Usus Antiquior, and not where you used to be, at the Novus Ordo (NO).
While you're at it, you may thank God also for a holy priest's warning that the Novus Ordo is a danger to faith. And for the realisation that it's not just the 'New Mass' that's a danger to faith, but NO churches too. God's holy dwellings pushed aside, unveiled and replaced by 'presider's' chairs. The plastic flowers (or in the better suburbs, silk). In not a few of them, the grime, the neglect - and between Sundays, the emptiness: all evidence of the faith that's lost.
And why has that faith been lost? Or rather, not lost but obscured, hidden from the laity by prelates and priests who may have possessed that priceless gift once, but unprotected by the TLM were lured into apostasy or sodomy, which necessarily kill faith stone dead. Prelates like the three men newly appointed by Francis (who doesn't want 'faggotry' in seminaries) to the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith. Edward Pentin explains:
Pope Francis today appointed the following three prelates as members of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith. All have defended the Church’s moral teaching and marriage between a man and a woman. However:
Cardinal José Tolentino de Mendonça, prefect of the Dicastery for Culture and Education, served for some years as rector of the Capela do Rato, a private chapel in Lisbon known for ministering to homosexuals whom he said he doesn’t judge: ncregister.com/news/pope-fran The cardinal has also been a supporter of Maria Teresa Forcades i Vila, a former religious sister famous for advocating “queer theology,” and wrote a preface to one of her books: onepeterfive.com/pope-francis-o
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| José Tolentino de Mendonça |
+De Mendonça will head the Dicastery for Culture and Education, a new curial department that brings together the former Congregation for Catholic Education and Pontifical Council for Culture. In 2018, he wrote the preface to a book by Sister Teresa Forcades, a radical feminist religious pro “queer”, contraception, abortion and ordination of women. In 2018, as a priest and published poet, de Mendonça was picked to direct the upcoming and now-traditional Lenten retreat to Pope Bergoglio and members of the Roman Curia.
Ah yes, that reminds us - who else has been chosen to give such a retreat? None other than Cardinal Victor Manuel Fernandez, author in 1988 of La pasión Mística - which he followed up with "Heal Me with Your Mouth. The Art of Kissing".
Cardinal Marcello Semeraro, prefect of the Dicastery for the Causes of Saints, has reportedly turned his diocese into the Italian capital of the Catholic-gay movement, annually hosting the Forum of Italian LGBT Christians, a group seeking to make homosexuality fully accepted inside the Church. He also wrote the foreword to a book by an Italian priest entitled “Possible Love — Homosexual Persons and Christian Morality” and has supported legal recognition of homosexual civil unions: newdailycompass.com/en/semeraro-co
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| Cardinal Marcello Semeraro: proposes 'authentic saints'. Hmmm |
Archbishop Bruno Forte of Chieti-Vasto in Italy was responsible for sections on homosexuality in the controversial interim document of the first Synod on the Family in 2014 that attempted to open the door to acceptance of homosexual relationships in the Church. bbc.co.uk/news/world-eur He has been a prominent voice advocating for more inclusion and respect for homosexuality and homosexual rights within the Church. lastampa.it/vatican-inside
In the wake of the Synod’s midterm Relatio ad disceptationem, the left rejoiced while conservatives and pro-family groups called it a “betrayal”. 3 paragraphs of the document dealing with homosexuality represented, not a mere omission, or an error, but a complete denial of the nature of man, the family, and the idea of sin itself. They represented a complete shirking of the teaching of John Paul II, so recently canonized by Pope Bergoglio, and so clear that a great number of the bishops rose up against the document at the synod. Finger-pointing started right away - at Archbishop Bruno Forte, Bishop of Chieti-Vasto.
Forte has been a rising star on the Italian theological scene for some time. A world class theologian, multi-lingual, he is a first- rate intellectual, penetrating serious philosophical texts.
And what do you know?
Forte preached a lenten retreat for then Pope John Paul II, and the late pope reportedly said “God will reward you.” According to Alessandro Zigrando, in the Winter 2005 edition of Latin Mass Magazine Forte’s name was on no official list submitted by the Italian Bishops for the vacant see of Chieti-Vasto, and his own Bishop of Naples was against it. Yet it went through, consecrated by the head of the CDF himself.
Forte was entirely opposed to Summorum Pontificum. The Traditional Mass is seen by Forte as going back, your turning back before that great event by the Holy Spirit, by which the Church realized it had been wrong for 1930 years and had at last its new Pentecost to replace the wrong-headed old one.https://athanasiuscm.org/2014/10/21/aude-sapere-006-meet-archbishop-bruno-forte/comment-page-1/
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| Archbishop Bruno Forte in younger days |
June is properly the province of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus. Francis' latest appointments would seem more appropriate to the world's version of June, dedicated to Satan and sodomy. Papa Bergoglio's placing Lavender Mafia like these three in positions of incalculable influence in the Church is further confirmation (if any were needed) of his implacable hatred of the Latin Mass.
Toddlers genuflecting, little boys holding hands with a baby sister, a pew full of penitents: this is "the most beautiful thing this side of heaven", the Mass which inculcates purity, chastity and love of our Eucharistic Lord. This is the future of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which with indecent haste, at the bidding of his globalist masters, Francis is scrambling to replace with the Church of Nice but Nasty.
If you're still attending the Novus Ordo Missae, give it prayerful reflection. Apostasy is catching. Your immortal soul matters more than being needed for the roster and when it comes to your particular judgment your friends won't be there, only Jesus Christ Who is so offended by the abuse and neglect He suffers at the typical NO Mass. And if it's one of the few that are reverent, chances are that the priest wishes fervently that he could be elsewhere, celebrating the Traditional Latin Mass.
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| Not the usual attitude of a Novus Ordo priest or people |
As an usher at TLM I get to see lots of children genuflecting with various levels of success. It's great. And thank goodness our holy water fonts are very heavy marble for those who just cant reach, so they climb.
ReplyDeleteWhat a privilege, not just to usher at a TLM, but a TLM where there are very heavy marble fonts. Ours are bits of tin screwed to the walls.
DeleteYour statement is very hard to make sense of. What you need to know is the Roman Catholic Religion is not & never has been Christian. It has always been part of the body if the Antichrist. It was founded on lies, like Peter was the Rock that God would build His Church & was the 1st pope. And it's lying doctrines & practises only continued to prove it's Antichrist
ReplyDeleteDoes it ever occur to you that your vitriol on the subject of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church can only be inspired by Satan, the father of lies?
DeleteI love praying the prayers ALOUD and in ENGLISH.
ReplyDeleteI don’t ever want to FORGET THE PRAYERS either.
what prayers are you referring to?
DeletePrayers of the Mass
DeleteMass is not about us & what we love.
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ReplyDeleteThere is no doubt the TLM is the most reverent mass you can attend. However it has been banned in our diocese except for 1 a month and it can not be a holy day or a Sunday. That being said, my parish does the NO in the most reverent way I have ever seen. NO is not the enemy. The abuses are that take place in so many. Stop throwing the baby out with the bath water. Jesus is present at both. Many cannot attend TLM or have never been exposed to it. We should unite as Catholics and not pit ourselves against each other. That’s a win for Satan. Keeping us bickering amongst ourselves prevents us from a real call to action.
ReplyDeleteI travel an hour and a quarter each way for the TLM on Sunday, except for one Sunday a month when it's only 45 minutes, but in a garage. My intention is not to bicker or deny the Real Presence in the Novus Ordo, but to inspire those still attending the NO - which BY DESIGN allows abuse of the Holy Eucharist, to make the effort to expose themselves to the Mass of Ages and realise its incomparable beauty and potential for sanctification.
DeleteBelieve me, after my experiences with the NO - and still with the NO church where I visit the Lord, using my own key as it's always locked - there's very much more I could say about Bugnini's New Mass. But in the interests of unity I refrain.
I wish I could accept a concept that Jesus is present. at a NO mass in the same manner as he is at a latin mass. I see the NO as Protestant and I'm sure He does, too.
DeleteJulia I agree. I think the NO is much more susceptible to abuse than the TLM. To me, saying that the NO can be celebrated reverently is like saying you can eat healthy at McDonald’s. Yes, it is technically possible, but it’s not what happens most of the time. 
DeleteJulia i appreciate your response. I guess I did not get the inspire part that you referred to but it sounds like your intentions were honorable. Just remember Our Lord can work wonders anywhere that He is present. It’s important that you recognize that not all NOs are awful or carry abuses. Some are quite beautiful and where I am at I have seen such a reverence and a return to tradition within the NO. Our priest faces the altar, we have our altar rail back so we can kneel for communion, so many women are choosing to veil, the list goes on and on. So speak out against the abuses-yes. Encourage an exploration and participation in TLM but don’t just throw away the NO as not legit or awful. That isn’t the case everywhere and it turns people away when we should be coming together for Christ. God Bless you!!
DeleteIt seems that with the 'inspire part' I failed miserably! The last thing I want is to antagonise but it sounds as if I did and I apologise for that.
DeleteBut I have never said the NO is not legitimate. Because it is. Unfortunately.
I believe the deciding factor in the reverence or otherwise of the NO is the priest, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the priests who celebrate it reverently would rather be celebrating the Latin Mass.
In Christo Rege.
I never thought I'd be defending the NO, but we have exceptional priests that look after every aspect of the things you are saying. It doesn't help that the things you are saying, are not true everywhere. A priest friend had to admit that the NO Mass was accepted by the church, in order to be consecrated by our bishop. Did he lie?
ReplyDeleteThe very fact that a priest is forced to declare (not 'admit', because you imply he didn't believe it) that the NO Mass is accepted by the Church in order to be ordained or incardinated into a diocese is a condemnation of the post-Vatican II Church - the 'Ape Church' prophesied by Venerable Fulton Sheen. That is truly wicked and should be recognised as such by all faithful Catholics.
DeleteA clarification: it wasn't the priest's declaration that the NO Mass is accepted by the Church, but the hierarchy's coercion that was wicked.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you continue to lie about what happens at Novus Ordo Masses? Our masses have many young children genuflecting as they enter their pews! We have many adults and children kneeling or genuflecting for the Eucharist! We have the long lines by the confessional especially on weekends. We have real flowers and our sanctuary is beautiful! We are Catholic and proud of our faith! Stop dividing!
ReplyDeleteYou're very blessed then, with your experience of the Novus Ordo Missae. My own has been wretched and the fact that my fellow NO Massgoers didn't seem to notice the abuses only made it more so.
DeleteEva Rohr, opinion based on empirical evidence is not a lie. Just as your experience is not a lie.
DeleteStop the name calling.
Eva Rohr, you also have jeans, flip flops, tank tops, shorts…
Delete'Accept Folks where they are at' is a classic Novus Ordo deception. I don't believe that would ever be taught at the TLM. If Our Lord Jesus Christ accepted folks where they are at, why would He have ever bothered to become Incarnate, born of the Virgin Mary, suffer under Pontius Pilate, be crucified, dead and buried? Didn't He want to save us from sin?
DeleteEva Rohr, are you lying? I haven’t seen anyone genuflect at a NO Mass in years.
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DeleteEva Rohr, you really must accept that the reverence at the NO masses does not match that seen and expected at a TLM parish. It just isn't the same.
DeleteYou would have a lot more if the adults didn’t practice Birth Control. My localist church (where I don’t go) has people talking to each other before and after Mass and I’m so distracted I wouldn’t know who genuflects.
DeleteEva Rohr, I must also address the "Stop Dividing" command. Do you not realize that it was Luther who divided the protestants, after 1,5000 years, out of the one, holy, catholic church? And it was another priest, Budnini I think, who divided out another huge faction away from the church with the Novus Ordo "mass" after 1969 years? It can be argued that the church got divided and you are as far away as the protestants.
DeleteThey don’t even even have to divide us. We’re doing well enough ourselves.
DeleteThat's somewhat unfair. Vatican II divided us by its imposition of the Novus Ordo on a Church previously united worldwide by the Latin Mass.
DeleteEva Rohr study more about the Mass and the changes, and you will realize what we have been robbed of. I used to think like you, but then I 6 (sic) educated.
ReplyDeleteI understand as I grew up in the TLM and was devastated when the changes came. I have not had opportunity to continue to attend anything but the Novus Ordo and continue to pray the TLM is once again the standard. Until then I will praise the Lord in thanksgiving for what I have.
DeleteLouise Gonya no, he was required by a NO bishop.
DeleteA true legitimately ordained bishop would not have required that.
ReplyDeleteWhy does the TLM versus NO argument go on and on. Why, because there are substantive issues that are tearing the Church apart, and the Church hierarchy won't resolve the arguments. Pope Francis only made things much worse with Traditionis Custodes, effectively all but banning the TLM. So the laity argue on blogs like this, and most of the hierarchy, by their actions or inactions, just throw petrol on the fire.
Please direct me to the Novus Ordo Masses in New Zealand that ‘have many young children genuflecting as they enter their pews’ as in the 8 years I have been in my parish I have never seen a single child from the attached school genuflect at any of our Masses. The children from one family who don’t attend that school are the only children who genuflect every time they attend Mass here.
ReplyDeleteYou are so lucky too in having ‘many young children’ attending your Masses as apart from the children from one family barely a handful ever attend Sunday Masses here – so what’s your secret?
we have a beautiful, Holy Catholic church attached to our church,the school children all genuflect even the littles are learning. We feel so blessed, happens to be a NO but our priests are very reverent. This is in Wisconsin, USA.
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DeleteYou are surely blessed. In my working life I made a point of copying the success of others in my line of business - and it worked, so I don't see why we can't apply the same procedure as far as church goes. I will google the Catholic church activity in Wisconsin, thank you.
DeleteBOb Gill, we have been very blessed with faithful priests who have done as much as the bishop allows to bring tradition back. We also have very young families with many children and teach them how to be reverent. We also have more than one generation of families living in the community and they worship together. Last but certainly not least is we have a very strong Catholic grade school educating youth preschool through 8th grade. Our priests are involved and assure the children they are loved, first by Jesus and then by the community.
DeleteBob Gill, everyone of our children genuflect. From Kindergarten to 8 th grade.And my 8 year old grandson gets down on both knees at Adoration
DeleteI attend an NO Mass and everything you just posted about NO Masses and Churches is 100% incorrect at our Church which implements everything you just claimed is unique to a TLM Mass/Church.
ReplyDeleteI stated that the sight of a toddler genuflecting tells you you're at a Latin Mass. I didn't say that such a sight - or anything else at the TLM - is unique to the Latin Mass. Perhaps even in benighted New Zealand you might possibly see a toddler genuflect at a Novus Ordo Mass, but never in my experience. It's rare even to see an adult genuflect. Thank God for your good priest - who might well privately prefer to be celebrating the TLM.
DeleteBut Thomas, the NO RCC still is subject to the Vatican and has to accept the Vatican heterodox Fiducia Suplicans and Amoris Laetitia.
DeleteMichael, ok... I assume you have a point there?
DeleteI have a 3 yo who regularly genuflects and tries to bless herself with Holy Water (it is still a work in progress). Your statement made it look like such a thing *never* happens in an NO environment.
DeleteI agree that three are some very disrespectful NO Masses but I have only seen them reported online; I have never experienced one myself. But, what do you expect? When we have people like Fr. James Martin being celebrated by the Vatican and faithful, holy Priests being railroaded? That has nothing, that I can see, to do with NO vs TLM. Since NO is far more common than TLM, you are bound, statistically, to see more liturgical violations in an NO environment than a TLM one. That doesn't make NO bad or the cause of the violations.
My little boy at 2 loves to do holy water with sign of cross saying “father, amen amen” - it is so precious. And will kneel next to us as well as genuflect
ReplyDeleteDeo gratias. What a blessing. If only the Latin Mass had been available to me and my children when they were little.
DeleteOof. I don't know where you go, but our parish has all those things in the NO. I support and attend both forms, so I'm not here to quarrel, but this is a wild generalization.
ReplyDeleteYou're very blessed to be able to support and attend both forms. I'm speaking from my experience here in New Zealand, where the differences are very stark and have forced me, in the interests of saving my soul and my family's, to examine the reasons for that. Have you read the prophetic Ottaviani Intervention? And I recommend the website OnePeterFive.
DeleteI came back to the faith so my older child has to do rcia (for youth) but my little guy benefits from Latin mass earlier.
DeleteJenn Manzi, no one "has to do rcia" - Get to a TLM priest - train your children in the ancient rite. Is your child ready for confirmation? any TLM priest can determine if your child is ready for the sacrament and he can communicate to the parish.
DeleteI agree wholeheartedly. My limited experience of assisting at RCIA in NZ was depressing.
DeleteMy boys kneel at our mother. Each of my 4 boys (9-2 years) genuflect before entering the pew. The older ones Compete to hold their little brothers hand. My first To get communion kneels and receives on the tongue. Which he was encouraged to do by our priests and deacons. We have real flowers . My children hush each other at mass expressing Jesus is here and at the consecration tell their littles that the church is full of angels and it’s now being turned into the actual body and blood of Jesus. They compete for who saw an angel worshiping with us 😂 you’re welcome to prefer TLM - it’s beautiful but not all NO attendees and masses are irreverent and lacking.
ReplyDeleteYou're very blessed. But you imply that Communion in the hand is permitted at your Novus Ordo. If so, it's necessarily irreverent and lacking.
DeleteWell backed up Julia. And yes instead of “division” our critic needs to appreciate we study and learn the Faith, not to divide, but to save souls. Modernism will never meet this need.
ReplyDeleteIve seen people kneel during the Mass and Adoration and Communion in Novus Ordo parishes. Ive seen children fearlessly and happily approach Novus Ordo priests and sisters.
ReplyDeleteTo imply that these things are only happening at TLM parishes is a great pharisaic lie! "We are better than everyone else bcs we kneel during Mass and Confession and communion!" 😅🙄
'Seen people kneel during the Mass' says it all.
Deleteyes, i didnt hear about it. New Zealand is not the only country in the world. 😅 and TLM is not the only valid catholic rite in the Church. 😂
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DeleteThose that kneel and use a communion are not better that those at a NO Mass. They have a deeper understanding and reverence for the Eucharist than a person walking up to a Eucharist Minister who hands have not been consecrated and putting in to your hands like a Ritz Cracker although it has been consecrated. After communion people have found consecrated Eucharists. In the pews, put into hymnals, and in some cases on the floor where they were sitting they also have been put into pockets and not been consumed with they received it.
DeleteMichael you're quite right, on both counts. But I think you didn't understand my previous comment. Kneeling during the Mass is surely the minimum of respect for our Eucharistic Lord.
DeleteJanet Young, I don’t want a layperson who is not celibate handling anything going in my mouth!
DeleteJulia, you dont get what i said. The phrase "Ive seen" means i am not "making up a story"; I was not relating an anecdotal story that i heard from someone's cousin's friend. It doenst mean kneeling is not my thing. 🙄
DeleteSpeaking of kneeling, according to your logic, people who cant kneel are automatically irreverent bcs they cant do the minimum. 😂 so, people who are weelchair (sic) bound and cant kneel are therefore TLMerically irreverent. 😂😂🙄
Sorry, I mistook your meaning. But 'people who cant kneel are automatically irreverent' isn't just NOT according to my logic, but to anyone's logic, because it's simply not logical. My husband for instance, who's had knee replacements and can't kneel or genuflect, is still as physically reverent as he can be.
DeleteMichael Moros, you are so wrong! The NO is so full of irreverent adults that they don't even correct children! And the new buzz word is the child is "neurodivergent" horse hockey because they can learn reverence too
DeleteNot the church I go to it still is a NO Mass but still it is reverent. with alter boys is red cassock and white surplices and female alter servers, everyone has to use the communion rail if they are unable to kneel if they still come to the communion rail and can get it by hand. they Hymnal is not Breaking Bread, Gather, Glory and Praise with music that would fit better into a non-christian form of worship and no connection to the gospel. Uses consecration bells, the vestments fabric does not look like it came from Jo Ann Fabrics.
DeleteI apologise if I sound picky, but the reverence due to Our Eucharistic Lord demands faithfulness to Church teaching, which means that altar boys must be preferred over girls, as according to tradition and doctrine females have no place whatsoever in the sanctuary. And those who can't kneel at the communion rail should still receive on the tongue rather than risk profanation of the Sacred Species. But in comparison with most NO Massgoers in New Zealand you are obviously blessed.
DeleteJanet Young and hopefully no clapping, holding hands or use of Orans posture. I wish that were the norm for NO but in all my travels, across many states, such is not the case
DeleteMarty Lynn, "full of irreverent adults"? Have you been to EVERY Novus Ordo around the globe to make that conclusion? You are a liar! Satanic! Your country is not the only country in the world! Your people is not the only people who are capable of giving due reverence to the Eucharist! Your racial supremacist view of your self is appaling!
DeleteThe intentional corruption of the Catholic Church began long before NO Masses. If you have the stomach for it, read up on Bella Dodd.
ReplyDeleteCommunion in the hand also began long before NO Masses. It is believed to have been practiced in the early Church and then resurrect in the early 1960's before Vatican II.
I'm not saying that there are no questionable things in the NO. I just wanted to point out that not all NO Masses are irreverent.
Thank you, yes, I agree that infiltration and corruption of the Church began many years prior to Vat2 and that Communion in the hand was practised in the early Patristic era. but discontinued for obvious reasons - of sacrilege apart from anything else.
DeleteAnd thank you, I've read Bella Dodd's book in its entirety, and blogged on it. https://juliadufresne.blogspot.com/.../how-commies-turned...
https://juliadufresne.blogspot.com/.../cardinal-dew...
etc.
No, but that means you are in the Philippines or that they are genuine Filipino Catholics!
ReplyDeleteRECOMMENDED to every Catholic - read everything from Michael Davies - particularly - It's the Mass that Matters - (available onlin) A bit more info - long before Bugnini (and was another evil nail in the coffin of true Catholicism) - about the N.O. communion service: This is the canon of the Anglican's - Sunday Prayer Service. Starts at the 36:00 mark (the Sanctus) if you don't want to listen to the Confiteor, the Kyrie, the Gloria, the first and second readings, the gospel, the homily and the Creed (all same as the N.O.)... Remember while you are watching - this is Anglican - protestant worship - written by heretic AB Thomas Cranmer, (who was then charged with heresy and excommunicated by the Catholic Church) - for King Henry VIII's son - King Edward - 1549 A.D.
ReplyDelete"Can. 1258 §1. It is not licit for the faithful by any manner to assist actively or to have a part in the sacred [rites] of non-Catholics" -
Catholics are forbidden to participate! - COME BACK TO THE TRUE CATHOLIC FAITH!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i_76lnF8Eo
DeleteTridentine Latin Mass Community TLM of Orange County OC Thank you, I've read Michael Davies' first volume, "Cranmer's Godly Order" and will get on to the others DV. I have referred to Davies in more than one post.
https://juliadufresne.blogspot.com/.../st-patricks-taupo...
where? Not anywhere that I have been in the US😪
DeleteMichael Moros et al, This article in the 'Remnant' (April 15) might shed some light:
Delete"A 2018 PEW study verifies the different impact that the two Mass forms have had on modern Catholics. Comparing Traditional Latin Mass goers with typical Novus Ordo attendees. the study found some significant differences. Of NO Catholics, 89% approved of contraception and 51% approved of abortion at some stage. For TLM Catholics those respective numbers were 2% and 1%, an incredible 45:1 ratio! Then again, 67% of NO Catholics saw no problem with gay marriage versus less than 2% for TLM goers. Weekly Mass attendance for the TLM averaged 99% compared to 22% for the NO. TLM Catholics donated about 6% of their income to the Church and averaged 3.6 children per family compared with a meager 1.2% of income donated by NO Catholics who averaged just 2.3 children per family."
Just saying ...