"One could say we have gone from a sophisticated whitewash to an orchestrated changing of the guard. Let's see where Bishop Charles Drennan goes next."
'John and Marian (sic)' (not their real names) are getting worked up about Father Joe Grayland and his appointment as Parish Priest at the Palmerston North Cathedral.
In a guest post, John and Marian say:
"In the wake of Bishop Charles Drennan's resignation and in the context of multiple scandals in the Church, one would think that ecclesial appointments would be vetted and cross-checked thoroughly.
So Cardinal Dew should know of the complaints made to the Apostolic Nuncio about Fr. Joe Grayland in 2018. These essentially revolved around his professed disbelief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and his oft-repeated expectation that people stand for the Eucharistic Prayer (many know they are justified in continuing to kneel.)
As far as we know, the Nuncio did not answer the plaints; we know Bishop Drennan upheld Fr. Joe Grayland and the Cardinal should be aware of this.
To recall the core of the plaint : To refer to the consecrated bread by the term 'ocular'; to say that Jesus is received in 'form'; and to say that Jesus did not say those words (of consecration) and further, to hide his intent behind the use of another language (Te Reo Maori) at the Consecration - without confirming the meaning or propriety of the words he was using - amounts to denial of the key belief in the Real Presence; it also amounts to evasion, obfuscation and intimidation - from the pulpit !
Yet this man is nevertheless appointed by the Cardinal as Parish Priest of the Cathedral in Palmerston North. Where does he go next? Vicar-General? Bishop?
Examining the situation from Bishop Drennan's resignation onwards, one could say we have gone from a sophisticated whitewash to an orchestrated changing of the guard. Let's see where Bishop Drennan goes next ...
The horror of it all can be summed up in the words 'betrayal of trust'. The horror deepens in seeing our Bishops, Cardinals and some priests betray the core tenet of our Eucharistic Faith which is: that Jesus is truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the consecrated species of bread and wine.
A thought for our Cardinals and those of high-level responsibility: to deny a known truth is to sin against the Holy Spirit. To describe contestation of statements or deeds of the clergy as 'vitriol' or 'rigidity' (as Pope Francis does) when it is clearly founded on Sacred Tradition, is to multiplicate and compound that sin.
It seems to us that the Pope, and those bishops and priests who deny the truth, are interested only in protecting agenda, power, position and prestige, even at the risk of committing the unforgivable sin and thus causing deicide and potentially the eternal loss of many souls committed to their care."
Donna Te Amo says:
Te Reo is an official language
of Aoteroa..Mass can be celebrated in many languages and is around the world.
The fact that it has taken nz this long to embrace this beautiful language is
the real travesty. Your comments Julie are offensive.
Bob Gill says:
Donna, I can’t see the comments related to Te Reo being offensive. They are made in response to the comments made by others on the blog, which generally highlight how the Church uses a lot of Te Reo when few Maori are present during church services (comments I have heard from others at Maori Masses I have attended). Te Reo is a beautiful language; nobody is disputing that.
I’d be impressed if the Church showed its concern about the few Maori actually attending specific Maori organised Masses and demonstrating that concern by making suggestions on how to increase attendance. It’s as if the Church is merely paying lip-service when having its priests utter that language at services.
Teresa Coles says:
How right you are Bob. I love the Maori singing and responses,but when you do not have many Maori in attendance at Mass it is unfair on the congregation...There is more Maori language being introduced now into our Mass and when you only have one Sunday Mass people are going to walk out the door and not come back..
Donna Te Amo says:
I doesn't matter whether Maori are present or not in terms of using the language. It's great we as a nation are embracing Te Reo Maori.
Donna, I can’t see the comments related to Te Reo being offensive. They are made in response to the comments made by others on the blog, which generally highlight how the Church uses a lot of Te Reo when few Maori are present during church services (comments I have heard from others at Maori Masses I have attended). Te Reo is a beautiful language; nobody is disputing that.
I’d be impressed if the Church showed its concern about the few Maori actually attending specific Maori organised Masses and demonstrating that concern by making suggestions on how to increase attendance. It’s as if the Church is merely paying lip-service when having its priests utter that language at services.
Teresa Coles says:
How right you are Bob. I love the Maori singing and responses,but when you do not have many Maori in attendance at Mass it is unfair on the congregation...There is more Maori language being introduced now into our Mass and when you only have one Sunday Mass people are going to walk out the door and not come back..
Donna Te Amo says:
I doesn't matter whether Maori are present or not in terms of using the language. It's great we as a nation are embracing Te Reo Maori.
These are hard times, while many in the Church are rightly focusing on sexual abuse in all its forms, they forget the other elephant in the room, spiritual abuse.
ReplyDeleteFor many it happens week in and week out and depending on the priest assigned to your parish, you often can't escape it.
At times it is shocking to witness. Once or twice I have wanted to leave the Church in that moment, but when the dust settles you reconcile yourself as best you can.
After a hard week at work, you willingly drag yourself out of bed to go to Mass to worship God, only to have the anchors of faith you cling to, for love of Christ and His Church, haughtily dealt to by your woke priest. You are the luddite and he is the enlightened one. Moreover they take a special pleasure in it, either by elevating themselves to the status of an insightful theologian or mocking the matter in question. I think a lot of priests need to go on retreat and reflect on the vice of vainglory.
My last inquisitor did a lot of damage with his particular insights about what heaven was and our 'journey' to it. I won't accuse him of universalism, for I personally could, in charity, give him the benefit of the doubt, but several around me were visibly disturbed, both young and old. I determined that his case was roughly composed and could have been easily challenged. On a few points he clearly did not stand with Catholic thought. But I am always suspicious, for what reason did he personally want to believe what he said, for clearly what was missing was particular judgement. That is good if you can avoid it, perhaps that is its attraction. But what about those persons disturbed about his interpretation? What good did he do? None. Will they come back to Mass or will that be the last straw?
All this demands an absolute commitment to becoming a true and faithful Catholic. There will be no commission to investigate any of this, they will continue to happily 'beat it out of us', and attack the devotional life of the few that continue to believe what the Church has always taught in faith and morals. That approach has contributed significantly to the emptying of Churches in the last 50 years. That is well documented and can no longer be denied.
Perhaps we strange ones who continue to believe the truth about the Real Presence can get by if we think of ourselves like recusant Catholics in the time of Henry VIII. Do whatever you can to find a faithful Mass with a faithful priest.
Yes, Linda, it is spiritual abuse and we must do what we can to resist it. I and other 'recusant Catholics' can take inspiration from the words of the seventh brother to be whipped and scourged by the king Antiochus: "I will not obey the king's command (to eat pork) of the law given to our fathers through Moses. But you who have contrived every kind of affliction for the Hebrews (read faithful Catholics), will not escape the hands of God" (2 Mc 7:30, 31). Neither will the 'woke priests' of our day.
DeleteI am not sure some of them know what they are doing. But it is certainly true that Catholic truth is underfire from both inside and outside the Church.
DeleteWe should spare a thought for priests who try to be faithful and for that reason are complained about by parishioners. I had one such good and personable priest speak with me (he is no longer in the country) who was upset that he had been complained about for teaching the children a little reverence to the Eucharist. This was with respect to receiving in the hand reverently. For that reason they could not have accused him of being a traditionalist zealot, so it must have been simply the act of reverence shown to Christ in this manner. That these radical whingers managed to get the priest called in for a chat with the vicar general in order to make him a bit more accommodating to their issues says it all. The vicar general should have told them to take a hike. So there is the other significant problem of parishioners who clutch their pearls and dob in the priest who upholds basic Catholic teaching.
It might be that the Church is riddled with modernism, such that the personal views of priests and ordinary Catholics are the locus of interpretation about definitive Catholic truths. Moreover it seems to me such innovations are considered a sign of spiritual freedom. If that is the case, doctrinal unity is an illusion and the Church is ungovernable.
ReplyDeleteYes, Linda, ‘spiritual abuse’ it is, and it comes in many forms. Like you, I have wanted to leave the church on occasions – and I did just recently when the priest stopped those people beginning to join the Communion queue and have them wait until after children’s blessings were given.
I emailed the priest concerned to suggest blessings be given after Communion. He responded with a simple ‘Thank you for this.’ I don’t think he intends changing things, though, because at a recent Cathedral Mass he and his lay ministers were mixing Communion distribution with blessings.
I recently contacted the Liturgy Office to point out that giving blessings during Communion time then placing that same hand into the chalice is contaminating the Hosts. This can be avoided, I suggested, if we have a national practice of Communion first then blessings. I have not yet had a response.
I do realise that some accidental touching is unavoidable when distributing Communion, but touching of people’s bodies when giving blessings then placing that same hand repetitively into the chalice is just blatant disrespect to the Blessed Sacrament, I believe.
It’s so obvious that most in the Communion queue don’t believe in the Real Presence because not so much as a simple bow of the head before receiving Communion, or an acknowledgement of His presence when the priest genuflects at the moment of Consecration from those parishioners who elected to stand at that time.
We can’t even get some quiet time for prayer after receiving Communion because of the noisy modern choir’s racket during that phase of the Mass. Bishop Steve Lowe agreed with me that quiet time was needed at that time when I complained about this in Hamilton, but friends there have since told me there has been no change.
The spiritual abuses you mention are so ingrained that they have become accepted Mass practice. A holy bishop on our local scene is needed to help combat these abuses. We certainly need someone who actually believes and is therefore able to stir the belief of others in the Real Presence. I pray that such a bishop eventually comes our way.
These are hard times indeed in the Church.
Somewhere I've read that saints of the past envied those who would live in this time of trial for the Church, because of the opportunities the Lord offers for suffering through this awfulness, for the saving of souls and our own sanctification.
DeleteYour point in respect to 'Ministers of the Eucharist' touching children in 'blessing' while distributing the Host is very valid. Thank God it doesn't happen in my parish, where Father blesses the children after Holy Communion, as is the only way to go about it, either by canon law or common sense.
If Holy Communion were distributed under only one kind - the Host - there would be no need for 'Eucharistic Ministers'. The priest would administer the Sacrament, as he did pre-Vat II - to far greater numbers. Of course, the process would be greatly expedited by the reinstalment of sanctuary railing … much easier for the priest to move along a row of communicants rather than having to stand still for the procedure ...
Bob, you will be touched by a clip of Archbishop Cordileone, who was found to be nearly in tears toward the end of the recent Mass of the America's held in the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in the USA. I believe the Bishops love their people and dearly want to please the Lord. It is a hard time and we just have to pray for them, and as you do, protect the Lord.
DeleteJulia, didn't St Catherine of Sienna speak about a special place in hell for those who complained about the time and place the Lord had put them? I think we just have to get on with the right task at hand don't we?
Julia, you're a worry.
DeleteDo you think eating pork was a sin ?
Do you think God wants us to suffer ?
Leo: perhaps the Maccabees account is for us a typology about the love and obedience to God's covenant being the most important thing? Consider the similarities between the Maccabean account and the early Christian martyrs who would not offer sacrifice to Caesar, or the Japanese martyrs who would not break Crosses etc.
DeleteWith respect to suffering, God wants our fidelity which often comes with a high cost. God does not want our suffering for its own sake but our fidelity despite it.
Why do you want to throw steadfastness under persecution, which is heroic virtue, under the bus, as if it is worthless? Where does Christianity hold that to be a good?
Gidday, Bob. Stevie Wonder (Bishop Lowe) came to our outpost last Sunday to administer First Holy Communion and Confirmation during Mass to 17 from the parish school. Perhaps 15 had any idea what they were doing. Sacrilege upon sacrilege !
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I was pleased to notice that Stevie discarded his usual promotion of feminism ("Sisters and brothers..."). But I think it was because he's not a multi-tasker, and he was very focussed on inserting a lot of Te Reo into the liturgy.
There were few, if any, part-Maoris present at the Mass.
A point I want to make here is that it is an almost unfailing characteristic of bishops and priests who fail us, or worse, that they like to insert Maori language into the Mass as much as they can.
That correlation is not surprising, of course, given that the insertion of Maori language into the Mass is a political act in almost all instances, a left-wing political act. And I've mentioned before that our bishops are left-wing political activists.
Using the Mass for political purposes is very wrong. There's probably a papal encyclical or instruction to that effect. I haven't bothered to search for such.
Bob, we had a holy bishop, Basil Meeking. But he resigned because he couldn't work with his fellow bishops who were in thrall to feminism (or feminists). Nothing has changed.
Stevie Wonder just turns away when I try to tell him of the evil of feminism.
Leo, here at St Joseph’s Dannevirke we have a Maori Mass monthly and few Maori attend that Mass. A lot of Maori hymns are included in many of our English Masses too, which always includes the introductory Sign of the Cross being said in Maori, and again, we don’t have an overflow of Maori at those Masses. I agree with you that it all appears to be political as using the same ongoing tactics hasn’t led to any significant increase in the Maori presence at our Sunday Masses while I have lived here. I wonder if the Church of Nice has noticed that too, and what it plans to do about it.
DeleteIt’s the same with one of our priests recently complaining in the media about near-empty churches on weekdays. I have pointed out that most daily Mass times available are during working hours, catering only for the retired community. If daily Masses were available after 5pm, for example, most of our Catholic community would be given the opportunity to attend. I’m not saying that what I’m suggesting will give more Mass attendance, but without looking at and implementing other alternatives we will certainly not improve things as they are.
Roseanne Sheridan says:
DeleteI am not saying that people should shut up about things that are really way out of line.I am far from that thought. It is just that there are protocols and procedures for things to be properly addressed. Otherwise negative talk can escalate to bring the Church down. Why is there not some uplifting and positive things about the priests being said on this page, all priests, not just those who say Latin Mass, all are Holy ordained Priests? I am certain all cannot be that bad all the time. Dialogue is good for bringing greater understanding between peoples and ideologies, for building up the Church..
Now for example, what is really "wrong" with a priest saying Mass in the Maori language or even just the Consecration? After all, it is one of NZ';s official languages. If the Mass can be said in Latin, that most people do not understand, then it can be said in any language. Maori is the language of the people as much as English. It is in accordance with the Treaty of Waitangi and bringing healing and unity to NZ. Why the criticism of this, I do not understand?
You're right, Roseanne, you don't understand.
DeleteGidday again, Bob.
DeleteI've got no gripe about there being a Maori language Mass, if it is designed to cater for part-Maori congregants.
I've attended many Maori Masses over the years; I've often found them more reverential than our garden-variety Sunday Masses.
I have a son living in Hastings. He moved there earlier this year. He has eschewed Sacred Heart and St Peter Chanel parish Masses; he attends the Maori Mass at Paki Paki.
My wife and I visited his family in October. We attended Sunday Mass at Paki Paki. It was a pleasant experience (Masses elsewhere are often not a pleasant experience) made even more pleasant by the announcement of Charlie Farlie's resignation.
I was moved to remark along those lines, as to the enjoyment of the Mass, as opposed to the political Maori language we are delivered so often in Sunday Masses, especially by our bishops and their left-wing political cohort.
Please excuse my "typo" in an earlier Comment.
DeleteI had meant to write that "perhaps 2 of the 17 had any idea what they were doing".
Eating pork was sinful for the Hebrews because their religion proscribed it. They believed God had forbidden them to eat pork; it was a serious offence in the eyes of God, ergo, to eat it was seriously sinful.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to suffering, you sound positively Protestant. To quote St John of the Cross: "It greatly behooves the soul, then, to have patience and constancy in all the tribulations WHICH GOD SENDS IT, whether they come from without or within, and are spiritual or corporal, great or small. It must take them all AS FROM HIS HAND for its healing and its good, and not flee from them, since they are health to it."
And circumcision was compulsory, etc. We make our Faith seem ridiculous to impartial observers when we uphold such cultural trivialities as being demanded by God.
ReplyDeleteLikewise to present Our Father as one who not only wishes us to suffer but also imposes suffering upon us is to present a God who is less worthy than Earthly fathers.
Do we think this is what Our Almighty Father had in mind when He created Adam and Eve ?
Do we think He created them so as to watch them suffer ?
Linda, steadfastness under persecution is greatly virtuous. But it's not what we're dealing with here.
I think you mean, we make our Faith seem ridiculous to worldly observers. Yes, the world routinely scorns Scripture, especially the Old Testament.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what honour they'll bestow on you when you're canonized. Obviously it would have to surpass the title "Doctor of the Church" as awarded to St John of the Cross. I have his 'Collected Works' and I'd be happy to lend it to you.
Julia, my sweet, I won't be canonised, as you know. And such a comment betrays a rather Pharisaic mentality. You don't answer questions/queries with honesty, and I've previously called out your disingenuousness.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, you have chosen to misinterpret my Comment.
"Worldly observers" is not the same as "impartial observers". And quoting Scripture to the secular world just doesn't cut it.
That's been a real fault of the anti-abortion movement. Enormously helpful benefactors such as Sir Robert Jones have been deterred from supporting the anti-abortion movement by the insistence on prayer and Christian adherence.
The evil of abortion is a human rights issue, not a religious, let alone Christian, one.
Anyway, our canonised saints are not infallible, especially such as Catherine of Sienna, who claimed a mystic marriage to Jesus indicated by the conveniently invisible prepuce of Jesus around her ring finger. Good grief !! What would Freud or Jung make of that ?
So, do you think Our Almighty Father wants us to suffer ?
Just to get back to the subject of Father Joe Grayland and the PN bishopric (what a hornets' nest 'John and Marian' stirred up!)
ReplyDeleteDinna fash y'sel', people! I have it on very good authority that Fr Joseph Grayland is not in the running. Deo gratias.
Phew!
DeleteNo, Donna, it's not great at all. It is politics, and nothing to do with communication. Sign language is an official NZ language, but that's not so politically correct for the purposes of politicising the Mass.
ReplyDelete