‘Canto fermo’ is the term for an existing melody used as the basis for a new composition.
The prose and poetry of mystics like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila and Edith Stein – all informed by the Gospel – is my ‘melody’. The ‘new composition’ is this blog and my indie novel ‘The Age for Love’. To buy my book go to amazon.com or smashwords.com and download to your kindle, iPad, phone or any reading device.
Monday 5 August 2019
WHEN WOMEN PROPHESY, OBVIOUSLY THEY SPEAK
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Jesus is the Holy of Holies, He came to reveal God's Presence in Him. Just today - the day after I said I felt a post on the Eucharist coming on - "Roseanne" is telling me off for making posts of any kind, because in A FEMALE IN CIVVIES GETS OUT OF THE SANCTUARY I quote St Paul as saying - according to Roseanne - that I have "no mandate to teach and should remain silent".
Then she proceeds to provoke me to speech by saying, "God is present in His Word, His Sacrament, His Priest and His people and in all creation".
I'm not contradicting Roseanne out of a desire to defend myself - St Teresa of Avila is very clear that a Carmelite doesn't do this. If one of her 'daughters' needed defending, God she said, would inspire someone to provide that defence.
No, I'm speaking out of desire to defend our Blessed Eucharistic Lord. In stating "God is present in His Word, His Sacrament, His Priest and His people and in all creation" she is making no distinction between God sustaining creation, God being spiritually present in His Word, priest and people, and God's Real Presence (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity) in the Blessed Sacrament.
I had a conversation a few days ago with a Mass-going Catholic, an intelligent man, which made it quite clear that in spite of affirming the doctrine of the Real Presence, in fact he does not truly believe in it. He does not believe that Jesus is physically present in the Host and in the tabernacle, and I'm certain many, many Catholics - maybe the majority of Massgoers - also lack that faith, at least in any depth .
How else explain the behavior of parents and teachers attending that post-Vat II invention, the 'School Mass', which in itself is a potent argument for the abolition of 'Catholic' schools? I try not to see what's happening at such a Mass, but I'm forced to hear it.
And now, my defence of our Lord in the Eucharist implies I should explain my right to defend Him. So here is Roseanne's comment in full, and my response:
Jesus is the Holy of Holies, He came to reveal God's Presence in Him. Being turned towards God is not about being turned away from people. God is present in His Word, His Sacrament, His Priest and His people and in all Creation.
The Eucharist reveals the presence of Christ, to show people where they truly belong, in being brought into the Holy of Holies. In Christ Jesus, all are made Holy through the power of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit sent by the Father, in the Resurrection of Jesus, to unite all in restoration. You mention St Paul's quote, so then, in your own words, you have no mandate to teach and should remain silent.
Yes Roseanne, I agree; Jesus is now the Holy of Holies. And being turned towards God is certainly not being turned away from people; and yes, God is of course present in His Word, priest, people and creation.
But here’s where we begin to differ. “In His Word, His Priest, His people and in all creation” he is present only spiritually. In the Eucharist He is Present physically, as Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
Christ is present in a totally different way in the Eucharist. The Eucharist “reveals the presence of Christ" because the Eucharist is the Presence of Christ.
In the tabernacle, He is really and truly the Baby in the manger, the Boy found teaching in the temple, the Man teaching the crowds and the Man dying on the Cross. In that tabernacle He is living, feeling, listening, confiding and suffering. And “in Christ Jesus”, not all, but only those who repent sacramentally, “are made holy”. As to quoting St Paul (1 Tim 2,12) - "I suffer not a woman to teach nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence" - well now:
• the word 'authority' has been corrected by recent scholarship to read as 'abuse of authority'. It's the only time this word is used in the whole of Scripture. • St Paul was discussing with Timothy a specific instance of bad teaching in the church at Ephesus (see 1 Tim 1), not laying down the law for the whole Church for ever. • the whole of the New Testament supports equality for women, and St Paul does that in Philippi, Thessalonika, Cenchrae and Rome.
And look at 1 Cor 11:5: "Every woman praying or prophesying ..."
Evidently, in 1 Tim 2:12 St Paul is stating that women should not abuse Church authority (the Magisterium), exactly as men should not - but they do, all the time, in the NZ Church of Nice.
Paul Collits says:
School Masses are truly a low moment in life.
Donna Te Amo says:
Very sad point of view - children love it and so do the parish - I also think Jesus doesn't mind it either!
I say:
Donna, as a parishioner may I say I loathe attending the 'School Mass' . And I'm not the only one.
Philippa O'Neill: Meee Tooo!
I continue:
I go only out of solidarity with my family who attend. As to Jesus not minding it, the Fatima visionary Lucia was told by the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus is deeply offended by talking in church.
At weekday Masses where the children attend they've gradually learned to be beautifully quiet and genuflect (setting an example for the adults!) But at Sunday School Masses, when they're set a very bad example by their parents - and teachers! - although they try to be silent during Mass, they contribute to a terrible din afterwards, when as I've said before on this blog, Jesus is still a guest in the souls of the communicants.
Philippa O'Neill says:
Donna Te Amo, maybe having to sit behind a family munching chocolate bars and watching YouTube might change your mind … as happened last Sunday … and at the Confirmations recently where all the adults chatted amongst themselves as our dear bishop confirmed the children. Maybe before these events parents need a lesson in the Real Presence. Or what Mass is.
Bob Gill says:
I have seen no evidence while attending a school Mass at St Joseph's Dannevirke during the past three years here that children love the Mass. A lot of them fidget: some have to be reminded by others in the congregation to settle down as the teachers not overseeing from behind are not always aware of what's going on.
All stand for the Eucharistic Prayer; only one bows or shows any respect while receiving the Blessed Sacrament, which tells me they have not been taught reverence or anything about the Real Presence.
Philippa O'Neill adds:
Bob Gill, Most if not all, have absolutely no idea of what the Mass is …. and the fact that they have to be told what to do proves that. And that is where they learn not to kneel during the Consecration. It may be different where you are but our little kids were always told just to sit and stand. Kneeling was just far too hard! Shameful. Not sure if this has changed but certainly was the case a few years ago.
I say:
Philippa, the children here at St Joseph's Waipukurau know one aspect of the Mass, at least; but only one.
They've been told over and over it's all about saying thank you to God. Nothing at all about the other three constitutive elements.
Of Adoration, Atonement and Petition, not a dickybird.
Philippa O'Neill, once more:
Julia, I had an awful experience when my son had his end of year Mass. The Year 13 Eucharist Minister all but threw the Eucharist at us (totally no understanding of the Real Presence or she would have treated Him with respect). It was so upsetting. I'm so blessed my daughter did not want to be a Eucharist Minister at school.She was asked and said no. The same girl kept blessing (as a priest does) those that were not receiving Communion. It was so awfu …
As for priests not believing in the Real Presence … well when you have a priest angrily jab the Host into your mouth that speaks volumes as to what he believes.
'Anonymous' says:
Good points well made Julia. But we know the feminist Church revolutionaries will never concede. And their corrosive unceasing demand has worn down the clerics, or many of them. Bob Gill adds: Philippa, I notice that in some churches the pews have been deliberately set up to encourage only sitting and standing - or so it seems to me. This is the case at St Joseph's Dannevirke so I periodically go to the church at a quiet time and enjoy moving the pews to make room for people who like to kneel (making the assumption that we'd all like to kneel and moving every pew I can see to fit that requirement). I must check out the cathedral next time I'm there and see if my seating modification is needed there too. And who can possibly doubt the Real Presence as God on occasions lets us know the reality: https://www.catholiceducation.org/ (The Miracle of Lanciano). I say: Thanks Bob, that's a new one on me. I myself have had proof of the reality - years ago but it's as if it happened yesterday. Really we should be on our knees every spare moment. Philippa O'Neill says: After Bishop Robert Barron's message today it is no wonder that people think women deacons or priests are ok. 75% of American Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence. That's a shocker. I say: Do you think it's any different in NZ? Philippa says: No Julia … Talking to a friend, she was totally unaware of the Real Presence … probably like most kids too. The Pew stats on the under 40s was shocking. Be no different here. We have a church here that has the tabernacle sitting behind a pile of seats … so all those people sit with their backs to Our Lord. That speaks volumes there. I say: Yes it does. So does the priest celebrating Mass with his back to Our Lord.
And now, my defence of our Lord in the Eucharist implies I should explain my right to defend Him. So here is Roseanne's comment in full, and my response:
But here’s where we begin to differ. “In His Word, His Priest, His people and in all creation” he is present only spiritually. In the Eucharist He is Present physically, as Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
Christ is present in a totally different way in the Eucharist. The Eucharist “reveals the presence of Christ" because the Eucharist is the Presence of Christ.
In the tabernacle, He is really and truly the Baby in the manger, the Boy found teaching in the temple, the Man teaching the crowds and the Man dying on the Cross. In that tabernacle He is living, feeling, listening, confiding and suffering.
And “in Christ Jesus”, not all, but only those who repent sacramentally, “are made holy”.
As to quoting St Paul (1 Tim 2,12) - "I suffer not a woman to teach nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence" - well now:
• the word 'authority' has been corrected by recent scholarship to read as 'abuse of authority'. It's the only time this word is used in the whole of Scripture.
• St Paul was discussing with Timothy a specific instance of bad teaching in the church at Ephesus (see 1 Tim 1), not laying down the law for the whole Church for ever.
• the whole of the New Testament supports equality for women, and St Paul does that in Philippi, Thessalonika, Cenchrae and Rome.
And look at 1 Cor 11:5: "Every woman praying or prophesying ..."
Bob Gill adds:
Philippa, I notice that in some churches the pews have been deliberately set up to encourage only sitting and standing - or so it seems to me. This is the case at St Joseph's Dannevirke so I periodically go to the church at a quiet time and enjoy moving the pews to make room for people who like to kneel (making the assumption that we'd all like to kneel and moving every pew I can see to fit that requirement).
I must check out the cathedral next time I'm there and see if my seating modification is needed there too.
And who can possibly doubt the Real Presence as God on occasions lets us know the reality: https://www.catholiceducation.org/ (The Miracle of Lanciano).
I say:
Thanks Bob, that's a new one on me. I myself have had proof of the reality - years ago but it's as if it happened yesterday. Really we should be on our knees every spare moment.
Philippa O'Neill says:
After Bishop Robert Barron's message today it is no wonder that people think women deacons or priests are ok. 75% of American Catholics don't believe in the Real Presence. That's a shocker.
I say: Do you think it's any different in NZ?
Philippa says:
No Julia … Talking to a friend, she was totally unaware of the Real Presence … probably like most kids too. The Pew stats on the under 40s was shocking. Be no different here. We have a church here that has the tabernacle sitting behind a pile of seats … so all those people sit with their backs to Our Lord. That speaks volumes there.
I say:
Yes it does. So does the priest celebrating Mass with his back to Our Lord.