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Are there any Catholics out there tonight who don't know that on October 4, a number of pagans and at least one Franciscan bowed down to the ground before pagan statues in the Vatican Gardens, in the presence of the Pope?
Not a lot, I'm thinking.
But there might be a lot who don't know the fate of the pagan idols - carved wooden images of a pregnant, naked woman, widely supposed to represent 'Pachamama', a fertility goddess who presides over plantings, among other sundry items like earthquakes (the Pope was planting a tree from Assisi, on the Feast of St Francis, to inaugurate the Amazon Synod).
It was also suggested that the idols represented the Blessed Virgin Mary. But even if, incredibly and - heaven forbid! - 'inappropriately' a naked pregnant image could suggest the Mother of God, no Catholic would bow down to the ground in worship before it.
And papal biographer/hagiographer Austen Ivereigh misfires twice, first in his attempt to have the image linked to the BVM, and second in saying, lamely, "everything that is human that is not evil is of God". Surely he wasn't saying a carved wooden idol is human?
Anyway, yesterday those naked pregnant idols - suggested by some to represent the Blessed Virgin Mary - were stolen away under cover of darkness and tipped into the Tiber.
https://youtu.be/CngoabjurIo
Good riddance to bad rubbish?
Catholic priest and apologist Father Mark Goring would seem to agree. He likens the action of the idolnappers to that of Christ, casting money-changers out of the temple.
But then, my 'little' daughter points out that while idol worship in the Vatican in the presence of the Pope is not a good idea, neither is biffing them into a river. "They were artefacts," she said, "and were probably precious to someone."
Father Nathaniel Tat Brazil says:
No to
Pachamama.
Yes to the Blessed Virgin Mary
Break down
their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the
fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those
places.
- Deuteronomy 12:3
Our
Lady of Guadalupe protector of the Americas, pray for us!
Anthony Trenwith says:
And what about JPII’s Buddha?
Father Brazil:
Buddha is not God but yes he
is an Idol as well. Anyway no Buddha in the Church.
Pachamama wasn’t in a church (unlike Buddha).
· Fr Brazil: They were in a Church (Santa Maria
in Traspontina) before Courageous Souls (I think one of them is Nigel Murray!) took them off to the
Tiber .
"Other religions found everywhere try to counter the
restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing
"ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The
Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these other religions found
everywhere (which?) try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own
manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and
sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in
these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and
of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects
from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that
Truth which enlightens all men" - Nostra Aetate 2.
Maybe St. Benedict
can enlighten you:
St Benedict Destroying Idols, Juan Andres Rizzi
You do realise you’re bound by oath to accept Nostra
Aetate don’t you?
I say:
Nostra Aetate does not have any dogmatic authority. Vatican II is the only Ecumenical Council that remained entirely pastoral and never engaged the Extraordinary Magisterium.
Pope Paul VI himself stated that "in view of the Pastoral nature of the Council, it avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner any dogmas carrying the mark of infallibility."
So Catholics are required to give the teachings of VatII only 'religious assent', which is motivated not by faith but by obedience to the religious authority.
If there is any conflict between obedience and faith, the moral virtue of obedience must give way to the theological virtue of faith. Faithful Catholics must disregard any teaching that is opposed to a truth contained in the deposit of Faith.
H
ave a guess who we had the pleasure of visting us this weekend?... Fr Brockhill. He ran a ladies retreat. Was brilliant. Sooooo blessed eh Ellen Marie Lucas? It was on prayer per St John of the Cross books with influence from St Teresa of Avila. Oh pure rubies.
He said 2 Latin Masses as well. We had people come along that had never experienced a Latin Mass and they were so emotional afterwards. They loved it.
I too get excited on those rare occasions listening to a priest who sets me on fire. Father Michael Wooler was our Sunday Mass celebrant in St Joseph’s Dannevirke yesterday, stirring us with his wonderful singing voice.
and showing much consideration during the Maori Mass by frequently translating the Maori into English for those who made up most of the congregation. I am told he will be coming every second month to say our monthly Maori Mass.
I find it hard to believe that Fathers Wooler and Brockhill are priests belonging to the Palmerston North diocese.
I say: Ahem. Fr Wooler does not belong to the PN Diocese. He is stationed in the Archdiocese of Wellington, in Napier, but he is a Marist.
Philippa O'Neill adds:
Fr Brockhill's sermons were pure gold. He left social justice alone. What a treat! 😁
Fr Brazil:
"Catechism
of the Catholic Church:
The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe
in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture
constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the
work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not
see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make
them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the
"living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history."
2113
Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant
temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man
commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God,
whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race,
ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and
mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45
refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of
God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God."
You are bound to accept
the Catechism of the Catholic Church, right?
·
Rewi Pene says:
What about Papatūānuku and Ranginui!! They are mentioned in
the NZ RE curriculum!! If it’s good enough for the Māoris it’s good enough for
the Amazonions.
Father Brazil says:
Yes, like in the Philippines we have
deity Idols before Spain came and brought us the True Faith in Christ, we still
do learn about them we call them Bathala and Anito but we don't worship them
anymore. Like the Maori diety and God's they are part of the Culture but as
Catholic we do not worship them. It's against the first commandment to worship
other Gods besides the Holy Trinity.
Viva Cristo Rey!
And we don’t worship Pachamama either! So that’s that
sorted then...
Fr Brazil:
She is our Mama, not the Pachamama!
-
Julia du Fresne That sort of puffery is just what we expect from the Tablet and Austin Ivereigh.